Mortgage Broker Broadcast
Developing your knowledge to help you build a successful Mortgage Broker business. Craig Skelton shares his thoughts and experiences on all aspects of mortgage advice covering everything from operating in the banking world, estate agency based advisers all the way up to working as a self employed broker. He will be joined by experts from within the industry and other business sectors which all play a key part in becoming a successful mortgage broker in the modern world.
Mortgage Broker Broadcast
The Brave Leap: Leaving Employment for Self-Employment
What does it take to leave behind a successful 20-year career and start completely fresh in a new industry? In this candid conversation, Dave Tindall of DLI Mortgages reveals the reality of transitioning from automotive marketing to establishing his own mortgage brokerage at age 38.
Dave shares the moment he decided to make this life-changing move—how he methodically assessed his strengths and desires on a blank piece of paper, and why mortgage broking emerged as his path forward. With refreshing honesty, he discusses the initial fear, the unwavering support from his now-wife, and that strange first Monday morning sitting at his desk with no boss and no corporate structure to fall back on.
For anyone contemplating a similar leap, Dave's insights about "employee guilt" are particularly valuable. He describes the six-month journey to overcome the ingrained belief that working hard means putting in specific hours rather than focusing on results. His marketing background gave him advantages in building his brand, though stepping in front of the camera for social media content required pushing past significant discomfort.
What resonates most powerfully is Dave's reflection on finding greater fulfillment in helping people achieve homeownership than he ever experienced in his previous career. The moment when clients receive their keys and his role in making that life-changing event happen provides satisfaction that selling luxury cars never could.
Looking ahead, Dave has intentionally chosen to build a business that prioritizes lifestyle and values over rapid expansion. His plans to create a husband-and-wife team reflect a thoughtful approach to success on his own terms.
Whether you're considering a career change, thinking about self-employment, or simply curious about the mortgage industry, this episode offers valuable wisdom about having the courage to make brave choices and defining success in ways that truly matter to you.
Looking for one to one mentoring, visit my website to see how it works craigskelton.co.uk
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Hi and welcome to this week's the Mortgage Broker broadcast. I'm your host, craig Skelton. I'm a mortgage business owner mentor and coach, and I'm here to help self-employed mortgage brokers and business owners build the business that they want. This podcast is made for brokers at every single level, whether you're just starting out in the industry or you're running your own firm or you're looking to grow and scale your existing brokerage. And my guest this week is Dave Tindall from DLI Mortgages. And my guest this week is Dave Tindall from DLI Mortgages, and I wanted to get Dave onto the podcast just to talk about his journey into financial services journey as a mortgage broker and setting up his own firm and business. Came from non-industry, came from a different background and, yeah, I just wanted to explain what challenges faced, how he fell, what thought process he went through and, yeah, just what the first 12 months has been like as a mortgage broker and business owner. So let's just get Dave onto the podcast. So welcome onto the podcast, dave. How are you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm good. Thanks, Craig. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1:Good Thanks for coming onto the podcast. I'm excited to get you. Craig, thanks for having me on. Good Thanks for coming on to the podcast. I'm excited to get you on as a guest and sort of chat about you and your business and past and mortgage broken and what you're doing. But yeah, I appreciate you coming on on this sunny August afternoon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really good to be on because you know, found uh found you via the podcast, so it's nice to uh nice to get on for an episode exactly so, like now you, that you'll understand how it feels being on the other side rather than the listener side.
Speaker 1:You're sort of on the interviewee side, so, um, so yeah, it'd be good. I'm looking forward to having a chat. So first of all, without giving too much away, do you want to just do a brief introduction about yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. So yeah, my name is Dave Tindall. I'm now running DLI Mortgages so I'm based down in Poole but obviously associated with you, Craig. So I've been in the industry for about 10 months now 10, 11 months. So I did CM him up before that Bit of a late starter because I'm 38 now. But, yeah, really enjoying it so far Good.
Speaker 1:I won't cash yourself. You won't break any records in terms of the 38-year-old into the industry, dave. But yeah, don't worry, it's not a bad age to go self-employed and set your own fame up and deal with the day-to-day challenges of being a mortgage broker. So, um, so yeah so go on.
Speaker 2:Sorry, no, sorry, yeah, I think, um, I think, uh, yeah, coming into it with a bit more experience has definitely helped I think it does that like.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's any right or wrong time. I think it's just sort of timing for the individual is what is the key, as, as you know, we talked a lot about that in terms of getting the timing right to do the right things, but in terms of getting into the industry, I just think so, obviously, if you've bought your own home and you're sold and you've got some protection and you've been through a bit of experience, then that does help so early enough. So, um, so yeah, so thanks for going to come, to come on, I'm looking forward to sort of having a chat about um, you and your background, which, and it's always a good place to start in terms of I know you're sort of, as you said there, you're 10 months into the industry now, but just let's go back if let's go back a few years. So, before broken, what was sort of your day to day world? What did that look like?
Speaker 2:So, before broken, I'd been in the automotive industry my whole career. So I thought behind that, about 21, 22 years out of uni, 22 years old, was, oh, I like cars, I should go and work with cars. That was about the extent of my career planning. So I did that, worked for Vauxhall at their head office up in Luton for a bit and then came back down to Poole, which is where I'm from originally, and worked for a dealer group in marketing and customer contact and customer experience, in marketing and customer contact and customer experience. And I'd been there about 10 years and just thought I think I need a change, I think I need to do something else. And, yeah, pretty much took a blank sheet of paper and listed what I thought I was good at, what I thought I might enjoy, thought about the life I wanted to lead and, yeah, that led me to thinking about becoming a mortgage broker.
Speaker 1:Interesting. What else was on the list? I'm interested to look at this now, if you can remember.
Speaker 2:I don't think there was anything else on the list.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm sure there's some careers out there that you know. So many careers. No one grows up wanting to be them, do they? You know there's all sorts of weird and wonderful things you can do.
Speaker 2:I think I guess I've always been more of a kind of numbers person. You know, I was. Maybe when I was in marketing I was much more on the sort of data side, but also customer experience, looking after people. So yeah, I guess, just having knowledge of the sort of jobs that are out there and, like I said, something I thought I'd enjoy, I'd be good at something that would enable me to be self-employed and run my own business. So yeah it was. I don't think anything else was on there. Um, so yeah it was. I don't think anything else was on there. I think it was just um, something that popped into my head, um, and yeah, I just went for it. It was quite impulsive for me, actually, because usually I would probably have spent a bit longer deliberating over it and maybe searching for every page on the Indeed website to find every possible job.
Speaker 1:But no, it sort of just um, just dropped into my head and here we are job, but no, it sort of just um, just dropped into my head and here we are exactly, and that's obviously now not a hindsight is a great thing, but it was clearly the right decision. And uh, so, in terms of the decision that you made and it's interesting when we think, like I said, with regards to marketing but you're interested more in the data side of things, I'm guessing, which I want to we will go on to talk about the, the marketing aspect of it. But in terms of from a broker point of view, you're actually right.
Speaker 1:Nobody wakes up, nobody goes to their sort of career sort of choices when you get to the end of your education years and thinks you know what, I'm going to be a mortgage broker, I'm somebody's going to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't, I don't know anybody that sort of woke up and thought you know what, that's what I'm going to do with my life. What was your? Was it? Was it sort of like a? Was it just automate, like the automotive business? Is that sort of where you, you're honest, your headlight and you're honestly just um, drifted through school and university.
Speaker 2:You know, I think the reason I mentioned AJ is for me personally. At that younger age I just went to school, then most of my friends were going to college and sixth form, so I did that. Then most of my friends were going to uni back in the days where it wasn't such a financial commitment, so I did that and did a business and marketing degree so nice, generic and then, yeah, I had to do a placement year, which was where the sort of car thing started, and yeah, just kind of then went and did a graduate program and, just as you know, then you're sort of on the conveyor belt, aren't you? And you're just kind of you're in your industry and you know you look at jobs and people will only give you an interview if it's in the related industry, usually, um, and so you just go along with it. You know my career progressed um, and I do like cars. You know I really enjoy cars. I'm not a complete petrol head, but you know they're a good product to work with.
Speaker 2:You know people would probably look at it now and think, wow, so you're a head of marketing involved in cars and now you're a mortgage broker involved in mortgages and I'm sure a lot of people would think I've made that decision the wrong way around. Um, but you know, a bit like mortgages, the cars, the product, like, okay, it's much easier to market, um, when you've got that physical product. You know it was Audi and Volvo brands I worked for later on. So you know you put an Audi R8 or something on social media. You know it's, it's going to engage a lot more people than a mortgage. Um, but actually, as I sort of thought about it, it was helping people which really appealed to me.
Speaker 2:You know, when we talk about those careers fairs, actually what you need to zero in on is what gets you ticking as a person. And you know, attracting someone to buy a car is great and I really enjoyed it. But now I just love, you know, getting onto a call or meeting some first-time buyers and they've come to you for help. They don't know what they're doing, they don't know about the mortgage, they don't know about buying the house or anything like that, and you can help them over, you know that, two, three, four months and then you see them get the keys to their first home and you know it's just. It's so rewarding, isn't it? I feel much rewarded through that, even though you know the product is is maybe not quite as uh, as glamorous as a nice new car.
Speaker 1:I would say it's a good point. If you are you're not a petrolhead, like you said but if you are sort of distracted by the shiny things of a new car and the latest model and things like that, then absolutely that is a big driver in terms of finding the right choice from a career point of view. But then from a personal point of view, yes, cars are important and, like again goes back to the individuals in terms of what their choices are. But home like homes, is like a big choice, that where you live, where you go home after working day, or where you work from or what like the location, all those things are sort of. And I think sometimes we can sort of underestimate that as a broker to think actually these are life-changing events. And don't get me wrong, I, like you, are very interested.
Speaker 1:I take a keen, keen interest in the automotive industry for being able to say it, but I think as well we sort of then take away the fact that actually these are life-changing things. If you'd saved for a car knowing that you still needed to borrow 85% of its value, but you were saving hard for the deposit of 15%, you were 15% and you were working hard and you're working hard to then just save for that car, to be able to have that car and drive around in that car, is then the homes is just as, if not more, important, because they're the people where, like I said, where they live, where they return home, where they bring the family up, all these sort of choices they make. So I think it's sort of it's a good analogy to me because, yeah, homes are so like important for for everybody yeah, and it's so.
Speaker 2:It's so much more nuanced buying the house, isn't it because you know, in the old job you'd attract people into the showroom, they'd sit down and the deal could be done within two hours, you know, subject to them liking the car and the finance application if only buying the house?
Speaker 1:was that simple?
Speaker 2:but where it isn't, you know, it's. The thing I enjoy about the job is is just helping people navigate that journey over a few months because, as you said, it's probably one of the most stressful moments they'll go through, with this amazing payoff at the end because they get into their new house, um, but the ups and downs they'll experience through that journey, um, are massive. So just being able to guide them and help them through that is, you know, that's what really motivates me to do this job. You know, that's what I love about it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Just, we didn't sort of touch on. I want to sort of take, go back a little bit, rewind a little bit in terms of you sat down with that piece of paper, you thinking about this there is just one job on the list of being a mortgage broker, about being self-employed. So you've gone from years of employment working for large corporations in in the motor industry, like what. What's sort of like what's going through your head at the time in terms of thinking you know what, I'm gonna put that to one side, keep that to touch a little bit and think I'm gonna go to the insecurity of being self-employed in a totally new industry yeah, I don't know if I was crazy or not.
Speaker 2:I remember saying to people they'd say, oh, that's brave, and I said something like it's either brave or stupid and my success will be the differentiator. And you know, fortunately, 10 months in now, I think we can lean slightly more towards brave than stupid, just um. But I think part of it was that that little itch to do my own thing, to be in control of my own destiny, to run my own business, which I'm sure a lot of people have not everyone, but a lot of people do um, and I just thought I really want to do that. You know, I really want to be in control of my own journey and my own path and that was a big part of it, and you know the freedom that offers and the stress, you know it's. There's no perfect situation, is there? But for me, you know, I've got an eight year old daughter, so actually just the freedom to be able to pick her up from school, you know, not because I need to, because I've got to take her to a dentist appointment, which your employer would be fine with, but just because I want to, because it's a nice day and I want to take her to the park or whatever it may be. So that was kind of a big, a big factor in it.
Speaker 2:And again, coming new to the industry, I guess I just thought mortgages you know there's a big old market there, isn't there. So actually, with the marketing background, I thought if I can market myself, well, you know, if people are going to like me and trust me, I can put myself out there and hopefully there's enough people that need a mortgage that they're going to put that trust in me and I can kind of pick it up and run with it. So yeah, there were some scary moments along the way, but I guess I just reached a point in my life and, you know, with my employment, where I just, you know, you just you just take stock, don't you? You know, prompted by a few things, and then you just make a decision and you've either got to make that decision and do it or you've got to stop thinking about it. And I guess I couldn't stop thinking about it.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really good point and I think, like you said, there, there's a lot of people. A lot of people do think about it. A lot of people do want to have all those things that you sort of talked about and all the benefits of, and the and the sort of the challenges that you face as well. However, not many people do do it. That you are the minority in terms of actually scratching that itch or whatever you want to talk about. A lot of people sort of think about it, talk about it, spend a of the time is not right. The timing will, because the timing will never be 100 perfect. You're never gonna get to the point going. You know what? Today is the day that I am going to go self-employed. That will never happen because you've still got bills to pay. You've still got income that you need to generate. You've still got happen because you've still got bills to pay. You've still got income that you need to generate. You've still got all the challenge of everything else and like, yes, it sounds great being self-employed, like you said about the freedom, but you are.
Speaker 1:I think the thing is to like not to take it. Don't not take anything away from yourself because you are the minority in terms of you know what I'm going to do this and it wasn't stupid, stupid, I think. Is it like stupidity? Absolutely not. I think it's just about being brave and I think I don't know what, like I know what my take on it is and I thought I've spoke about it before. But for you, did you always think, did you have the thought in your head going if this doesn't work, what's the worst that can happen? I just go back into the industry that I've came from, because somebody will employ me yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 2:I, that's a really good way of putting it and that's what I thought. I thought I can take this chance now and if six months in, a year in, it's not working out, it's not for me, well, I'll either be able to go back into the industry I was already in doing the same job, or do you know what I could probably do? A marketing role in financial services from the experience I've got? Or you know, I've just added so much to to myself and my knowledge and, having been in my last role for 10 years, that was something I realized I just hadn't really done to sort of push myself. So, yeah, exactly that.
Speaker 2:You know, I realized that at that point I was thinking about a career change, you know, doing a new job anyway. Well, worst case scenario, a year down the line, I just apply for the same job as I would have been applying for anyway, and you know, okay, I, maybe I've spent a bit of savings, but worst case that, that itch has been scratched and I know it wasn't for me and you know I'll go back to the employed world, um, not wondering anymore. Um, yeah, as we said the other day, the opposite to that's probably happened. Um, and my motivation was already high, and now it's probably extremely high, on the basis that I'm not sure I could step back into that world anymore. So, um, you know once, once you've gone into it.
Speaker 1:I think, well, I think the thing is, because you've made such a success of it, dave, I think then you do become detached from the world that you left behind in terms of the employer, and I think that's you will get everybody who's self-employed will get to that point of that tip-over point going like I can't go. But there is that point of no, the point of no return. Yeah, so there is that point of no return going. Yeah, so if it doesn't work out and it doesn't go to plan and things do go wrong and don't, and that does happen and it can happen. But I think, like you say, he said, knowing that actually, well, I'll just go back to what I was doing before. I've not lost anything. Yes, I might have lost a few pounds in my savings account, but will I have learned something? Absolutely? Will I have sort of been better as a human being? Absolutely, and that age has been scratched.
Speaker 1:It's like, well, you can then, I think then you fully embrace the world you go back into, because then actually, you know, I've tried, that didn't work. This is where I'm, this is where I'm meant to be. Let me just fully embrace my employed world now with what I'm doing, and look at how you can manufacture the right role within the, within what you're doing as an employed individual, compared to sort of having that thought in your mind oh, I always wanted to set my own business up. I always wanted to go self-employed. I always wanted to be a self-employed mortgage broker, just like you do. From what you're saying, it's not something that you spent too much time overthinking on.
Speaker 2:No, I would say, the truth of it was that, in terms of my employment and where I'd got to and what I sort of thought about it, it was almost one of those ones that you know, if I was, I don't know, rating my happiness with my job, role and what was going on at a seven out of ten, maybe I would have just carried on because you know you, just you do, don't you? You can find yourself a little bit on autopilot, but actually probably I wasn't rating it a 7 out of 10 anymore. And then you sort of pushed into making a bit more of a decision and you know, I looked at similar other roles. You could go and do a similar role with maybe a slightly larger company and you could bump your salary up by 10% and that's all very nice.
Speaker 2:But the frustrations I had were always going to be the same, frustrations in terms of the employed world. You know, we all know what those can be and every company is going to have its own challenges, but they're all going to be same, aren't they? You've always got the same same hurdles you've got to overcome. So, yeah, I think, I think I just knew I needed to do it, and my wife as she is now. I I do some running, as you know, and I thought about it a lot on my own, with running, when running, and that's what I tend to do. And I I sat down with her one day and we had a drink. She had a wine, I had a beer.
Speaker 1:I just said to her.
Speaker 2:I've been thinking I might change career and retrain as a mortgage broker and set up my own business. And, blessed, she just looked me straight in the eye and said I think you should do it. You know, there was no hesitation, there was no questioning. You know, she can be a bit of a warrior, so she would have known. You know what I was saying. You know, in terms of our short-term financial stability and all that kind of stuff, and she didn't hesitate. And having the support of people her yourself, once we, you know, in contact, that makes a big difference as well, because even on the days where you question what you're doing, she'll come home from her job and she'll just say, yeah, you can do it. And yeah, it just gives you that kind of reassurance, doesn't it? You know we're always going to have some self stuff out, but if you've got people around you that will support you I guess almost without question then that really helps as well.
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 1:And you know that I'm very keen on that in terms of having that friends, family, the people that you sort of share your home with, that you sort of immediate support network.
Speaker 1:It is important that they do back you in terms of what you're looking to, because when you have those good days or bad days and you have them all, then they are the ones that will sort of they need to rally around you.
Speaker 1:But ultimately, from the beginning they've got to sort of say yes, you can do it, yes, you're doing the right thing. Because if you've got somebody who doesn't support you and sort of says I don't think you should be doing this, but you want to do it anyway, it's then like how quickly does the I told you so come out sort of situation in terms of it. So it is important and I always sort of say, like whenever people are looking to get into our industry or even looking to go self-employed, I'll always sort of say to them go away, have a chat to your support network, think about the people that are important to you, and then just do they support you and what you're doing? Because it is so important that you have that ability to have somebody there that when you, when I say when you're facing the, the challenging days, yeah, and they get things objectively, can't they?
Speaker 2:because we all have that degree of self-doubt and imposter syndrome and whatever you want to call it, and you start off thinking, can I do this? And they can be quite good to say to you well, you know, I'm choosing to become a mortgage broker. I'm not inventing a new business. I'm not bringing a new service or product to the market that hasn't already been here. You know, there's plenty of successful mortgage brokers out there so they can look at it and go. Well, if other people are doing it, why can't you do it? You know, and that's the thing, isn't it? We're not reinventing the wheel here.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, their kind of more impartial for you, I think can really help as well. Yeah, definitely, definitely so in terms. So you've got this, so you've decided to be brave. You've got the support of your now wife and I forgot to mention that the biggest podcast, so congratulations. So I forgot to mention that. Um, so yeah, so you've got the support, you've been brave. What does sort of like? The question I've got is like what does day one look like? But is there a day minus 10, minus 20, minus 30, because the people sort of seem to have different views on that with regards to sort of preparation, but what was going? So, yeah, what was day one look like? And we might need to rewind a little bit if there was a bit more work done before yeah, so I suppose I had a three month notice period in the previous job, um so minus 90, then there was a minus, yeah, so it was minus 90 and I tell you what the best thing was.
Speaker 2:We had a holiday and I actually gave my notice in on a friday. We went on holiday at the weekend for a holiday and I actually gave my notice in on a Friday.
Speaker 2:We went on holiday at the weekend for a week and that was the most relaxing, enjoyable holiday, I think, because that sort of weights lifted, you know it wasn't um, yet kind of up and running and that was great. But yeah, I suppose you start down it and, as you know, you can't really do this job on top of a full-time job, where you can't at all. But it just meant a few things started to happen. I started to talk to people about what I was going to be doing, generating those few kind of early leads and appointments over that kind of three month period, and then that meant day one maybe wasn't quite as strange as it might have been, because it wasn't kind of right, log in, let's find some clients. I had a few kind of ready to go, but yeah, it was still.
Speaker 2:It was still strange, you know, after all those years getting up on a Monday morning to go to work, to come down into my you know my office here and and just log on and think, right, what we're going to do then. But it wasn't a completely cold start and, um, that sort of got me up and running. But yeah, the early days are a bit strange because you know, I think it's was it Shawshank Redemption, isn't it? When they come out of the prison and they're sort of institutionalized and all of a sudden you've got all this freedom you wanted. I think the analogy I use is a bit like being a kid in a sweet shop, isn't it? And then all of a sudden, you're told you can have whatever sweets you want. And then you're like oh, can I?
Speaker 1:where do I?
Speaker 2:start. Yeah, exactly, um, but I think that's where you know, for me some of the confidence I have was in a marketing background. So actually things like social media, things like website, you know that kind of stuff I've done that before, so it wasn't learning that as much. I almost had that to sort of fall back on um, so I could start kind of putting myself out there and doing all that and I was fairly comfortable with it, whereas I guess some people, maybe coming from industry, have to learn a bit more about that as they go.
Speaker 1:That was one of my questions. I've got something else, but I'll come back to that in a second, but you've led on to that quite nicely, because that was one of my questions. With regards to do you think the marketing background that you had gave you sort of like a bit of a? You had no clients. You've got the one or two clients, like you said, but you're starting from zero, really, in terms of actual clients you've got. Do you think marketing and the marketing background helped you to sort of then keep that moving forward, keep building that traction?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. I think some of the things you know about marketing. So maybe not how you might use social media, because you know most people know how to use it and particularly probably those 10 years younger than me. They're so comfortable with it. But I guess, strangely, sort of my expectations of it were maybe more realistic. So I knew that it's not a case of I'm going to put a post up on day one and all of a sudden 20 people are going to appear saying I want a mortgage. So kind of knowing that and actually knowing it.
Speaker 2:Actually, you know, in the first three months, if I've only had one or two leads from social media, well that's fine because it's just growing and there's people out there. And then it does continue to grow, doesn't it? And each month it kind of builds and because you haven't given up on it after a couple of months, because you've not seen too many results out of it, it just continues on that trajectory. Um, and I think the other thing was the sort of customer experience angle and how I like to treat people and how you make sure they're kept up to date with progress and um, because a lot of it's a people game as well, isn't it, as we know? You know, the mortgage is the mortgage, but the service you offer people is what will really make the difference.
Speaker 1:I think the thing is because you are running your own business and you've got that freedom, now I think it's easier to sort of traject your values on what you're doing rather than being told what your values are, of being in the corporate world and being told what the values of the business is, and then if they're not aligned aligned, then you have to make sure you are aligned with what their values are, because they're the people that are dropping that money into your bank account at the end of every single month and so, like you, you're, you're trading that for your, for your pounds, aren't you so, whereas now it's not, like you are able to sell, and is that important, don't like in terms of for you, in terms of like your, your values and your business are very aligned yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:I mean, I used to not enjoy things like networking or meeting people as kind of a representative of a company, because, even though the values might be similar, you're always conscious that you're a reflection of something else, whereas now you know I can't say the wrong thing for my brand because I am my brand. So, if I've said it, it's authentic, right. And yeah, when it's your thing, when it's something you own, you know that passion you have for it, that passion for making sure things are done how you want them to be done. Um, and the right way. You know that is that's the motivation, isn't it? Yeah, to do that to, to treat people the way you think they want to be treated and to give them that service, but to know that the way you're doing that, you know whether it's it's that's a humor or diligence or whatever. Um, it is you and that's.
Speaker 1:You know that's, that's going to be fine in terms of, like one of the things that I was going to ask you, we should we. I moved away from slightly, but I'm going to come back to it now because we need talked about day one, day minus 90, day one when you sat down that Monday morning or whenever it was, you thought right, I've got nobody to talk to. So how quickly did the guilt kick in and how quickly did you eventually lose that guilt?
Speaker 2:What about the hours that I was working?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, sorry, I didn't elaborate a little bit and and then when you smiled I thought you knew what I was talking about. But, thanks, I find that, yeah, the hours that you were working, absolutely yeah I would say that took a good six months or so.
Speaker 2:Um, because, yeah, you, you are institutionalized by employment, aren't you? So in my head, working hard means that you're working 40 45 hours a week for monday to friday, um, and you know whether your results are good, bad or indifferent. If you're doing those 45 hours a week, then you know that's working hard. Um, and, yeah, it did. It did take a while. Uh, so I'd say, probably only in the last three months or so. As you know, the business has grown and you can see the results you're getting.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, the thing that was my issue was that I would, you know, have that bit of guilt if I finished on a Friday at three o'clock, but never give myself any credit for you know, the two appointments I'd done on evenings that week and the Saturday afternoon I went and did an appointment. So I did have to have a yeah, a bit of a moment of realization to say, no, this is fine. You know, this is part of part of why you've done this the freedom, and you know, when you're busy with clients sometimes you haven't got that choice. But then, if you have got the opportunity, as we sit here in August to to finish early on a Friday afternoon or pick my daughter up. As I said, you've got to take it, because otherwise your start point is everything you're already working in the employee world, and then you're adding evenings and weekends onto it as well.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing. And it is, six months is quite a good, that's like the normal. To be fair, some people never lose it. But then I think, like you said, we are institutionalised from our employers. We go even further back than that Education. We're sort of being told what to do, where to go by, what time, from a very, very young age in terms of education, a very, very young age in terms of education, or if like, and if I, if you, if you as a child, being in sort of like, sort of nursery, from like, a very young age, and it's even more so, you like parents, are getting ready for work and getting you ready to get to nursery from a, from one year old. So, like you can be, you can be, you've. It's a big, it's a long time that you've got those habits that need to be broken. So I think, broken in the right way they're not broken necessarily where you just don't care anymore and thinking, okay, I'm not, I'm not going to be working, because that doesn't work out for long term. But for you, six months is quite a good time. And like what? What made me smile?
Speaker 1:There was you sort of said it was down to you. You decided you sort of broke the habits. You was about losing that guilt. It wasn't somebody saying to you you need to lose that guilt or you need to do this or that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think with anything like that it has to come from inside, it has to come from yourself to think, yeah, nobody's going to pat me on the back for doing that eight o'clock appointment last night, or so you like say, and it's interesting to to get your take on thinking you're adding more. So you're still doing the 9 to 5, the 9 to 6, 8 to 6, or whatever the world they're used to. And then you're adding on top of that a 6 to 8 o'clock every single day of the week, and then it's sort of like the weekends then creep in. So yeah, guilt is a good one to lose in the right way, but it's quite important to lose it fairly quickly, and six months generally six months is quite a not a bad time to lose it, and I think as well that will help with consistency of income as well. They're in leads and you can see the pipeline building and things like that as well. They will help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're right. I think, once the early days you're so desperate to push on and you know, you think, well, if I'm not where I want to be, I want to get there as quickly as possible. And whilst you know, of course, 10 months in I'm not where I ultimately want to be, I'm happy with where I am for the time I've been doing it.
Speaker 1:I was going to say to you, if you look back at now and thought, right, you're 10 months into this, would you have taken if somebody said to you, right, dave, just fast forward, and this is what your business is going to look like in 10 months time, would you have taken that?
Speaker 2:100%. Yeah, I mean, we had a chat about it in the early days and about how things might look and, like I say, despite you know what we've said earlier about, you know, making brave decisions, that's not necessarily me, you know, I'm not necessarily a huge risk taker or someone like that. So you know, I was maybe quite conservative on what I thought I might be able to achieve and I guess a bit of that can be almost a bit of a defence mechanism. You know, if you set your target somewhere and you don't make it, maybe you know the way you judge your performance. So maybe I could have, you know, been a bit more ambitious on what I initially thought. But as a result, you know, I'm really happy with how the first sort of nearly a year has gone Still needs to grow more.
Speaker 2:Result you know I'm really happy with how the first sort of nearly years gone, um, still needs to grow more. You know I don't want anyone listening to think, oh, you know it's, it's completely done and you know all that kind of stuff. But you know, if I'd have mapped out maybe how year one would look and hopefully how that will go to year two and year three, then, um, yeah, really happy with it and obviously, as you sort of linked them together, that then just helps with that bit of guilt as well, because you can then see the results are coming and think, okay, you know, it doesn't need to be 50 hours a week. Every week I can see what's coming and actually, as we know, sometimes those hours they're just, they're not productive. Are they? You're doing them because you think you should, and are you really adding that much value to what you're doing? Maybe not.
Speaker 1:Maybe you're just sitting working because you think you should yeah, I think that's a good point, that you just thought you're not working smarter. It's just about what you're just putting the hours in which, at the end of the day, that was fine as an employee, because you just needed to tick through the the hours and go right, that's my shift over and, uh, I'll get, I'll collect my check at the end of the month, kind of thing, whereas this is, um, being self-employed is certainly, uh, very different. What if you could sort of so? Do you take where you're at 10 million, like you, and in terms of what you said, it's like no, you're not the finished article. I don't think any broker business owner will ever be sort of like that. Do you know what? Now I've made it can, I think I'm exactly where I want to be and it just continues in that kind of way.
Speaker 1:We're always sort of looking to improve and develop and learn as we grow. But if you could, sort of you listened to this podcast before you, um, decided to be brave, if you've got sort of like one thing that you could say, thing, one thing that you could say to yourself. So you sort of you're listening to this podcast and you're sat there 12 months ago and you're listening to dave tind, who's DLI Mortgages and he's sort of what's the one thing that you would say to yourself 12 months ago, your 12-month-ago self, what would you say to them today?
Speaker 2:I would probably say back yourself and if you're willing to work hard and you've got integrity, um, those two factors I think will take you a long way. I don't think it's um, you know, you don't need to be the smartest person, you don't even necessarily need to be the best with numbers, but I think if you're, you need to be okay with numbers just to add. But you know you don't need to think you need to be okay with numbers just to add. But you know you don't need to think that you need to be an Oxford or Cambridge graduate in maths to do this job. But I think if you're willing to work hard, you've got integrity. I think that will take you a long way, definitely.
Speaker 1:So you sort of said when you were brave, you wrote down on a piece of paper something that you'd love to do. Do you love being like that's a bit cliche, but do you enjoy doing what you're doing?
Speaker 2:I enjoy. Well, no, I love lots of parts of it. There's not going to be any job where you love 100% of it. There's, you know, admin tasks every break or no. Compliance isn't always the most fun, is it? But the reward you get, you know, if I get a message from a client, or when you see a review go in or they just say something to you, it just for me, that's what I absolutely love. You know they, just when you've delivered that service and you've just made that purchase for them, that mortgage, whatever, you've just made it as stress-free as possible, you've been there for them, just to know the impact you've had on that person to me, I just, um, yeah, that's what I love, that's that and that bit probably even more than I realized before I started doing this job and I say like it is a a very good point, because you know you're never gonna I don't think anybody up below fact.
Speaker 1:We'll always. We're human beings. We always find something to to moan and whinge about in terms of what, even if we've got everything on a plate and it was sort of served up and we'd still find some sort of um, something to to moan about. However, I think they say you're focusing on the end goal, that is, it's life-changing for these individuals. I don't like go back to my point before. Somebody who's saved had a lot of consequences and and a lot of sort of they've gone without for quite a period of time to save a deposit for a home and then they're trusting you with that money in terms of I know they're not physically, but it's just they are trusting you with that money in terms of I know they're not physically, but it's just they are trusting you with your advice and what you're going to do and what house to buy, because I know you're very keen in terms of getting involved with the house purchase as well and sort of talking around that aspect, which is good. It is sort of like these are life-changing decisions for individuals in terms of what they're looking to do. So it is all about trust, but you have to enjoy it, you have to like they, you have to feel, get that motivation to think you know what. I have helped those people out and the recognition like you've got, you've your reviews you've collected already on on google are phenomenal. You obviously display them on your social media.
Speaker 1:Did you like one thing? Question I didn't ask about social, about marketing, which I think I sort of need to get in because you do, you are the face, you do get behind the camera, you do, you are in front of the camera. Sorry, you are sorry. So you've gone from. I'm guessing you wasn't, unless I'm I've missed. I've missed the audi or the volkswagen. So, uh, campaigns over the last few years I don't't think you were quite the face of the Audi campaigns.
Speaker 2:There's lots of more famous people available for that, so yeah, so what was it?
Speaker 1:So was it always the plan to then think do you know what I need to get in front of the camera? People need to see who I am.
Speaker 2:No, I was famous in the old days. I never wanted to get in front of the camera for anything, you know. Partly going back to that um thing we were saying about you're representing a company, you're not representing yourself, um, but no, I didn't want to do it, but it's what gets you out there, isn't it? It it's what gets people familiar with you, it's what they see. So to me, it was just something I had to do.
Speaker 2:If you want to take on the responsibility of running your own business, then there's going to be things you have to do to get where you want to be, and that was one of them. So, yeah, probably like a lot of brokers, you know, didn't really start massively wanting to do it first video was probably pretty shoddy, I mean, some of them probably still are, um, but you can see how they perform, how many people see them, um, and it builds that familiarity, doesn't it? It reminds people your face and what you're doing, um, and then when they ring you up, they hopefully already feel a bit of a connection to you and they know a bit about you, rather than maybe just, uh, you know an image that you post that just says, um, you know what's the decision in principle or something like, something like that which you know it's not.
Speaker 1:it's not massively going to engage people no, it's obviously helping answering questions, but it's not personable and people want to feel that somebody reaches out to you and books that books in your diary and turns up to that first appointment. They already know you, they are familiar, right, they're familiar with you already. You do not know them. You might, they might feel a bit of forming online, whereas they feel that they know you already. So that helps to sort of break ground from the start with regards to rapport and everything else, as we know. So I was just interested to get your take, whether it was something you, let's say, I can't remember the face of Audi, but uh, but yeah, I might miss that, I might miss that. So we've covered past present sort of any sort of obviously I know you're only sort of 10 months in any sort of like um plans for sort of like what, where dli is going, what are you doing? Like what way?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I mean, I always said, um, this isn't a business I'm planning to scale up to be, you know, a team of 10, 20 brokers. You know I've not got into it to almost recreate the corporate environment I've left, even though I would be obviously the one running it. Yeah, yeah, um. So you know, for me it's not about that and I think it's hard. You know, it's my brand, it's my business. I think to take that leap of faith to employ someone to represent you, I think would be not what I'm looking for, you know, as long as um would be not what I'm looking for. You know, as long as you know I can make it work. However, I've got a plan to bring my wife on board, so she is a fantastic business support administrator type person, obviously can't get much closer to me in terms of representing the brand.
Speaker 1:Trust. Be a big, big thing there, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:I trust them all that. I trust myself. Yeah, yeah, it will be an enhancement. So, yeah, the the, the medium-term plan is to kind of bring her into the business to, you know, help, help to run the business, but take on some of the administrative tasks as well, um, and just to form, I guess, a husband and wife team to keep offering that service, that that I offer, um, and just to grow it to a level that we're we're happy with.
Speaker 2:You know, it's not about becoming the richest mortgage broker out there. That's not what I'm in it for. You know, there's a degree of, obviously, income I want to earn to, you know, support the lifestyle you want to have. But you know, our dream is to be running this business where we're well known for offering this amazing service to people, supporting them through the journey, and it supports some freedom in our lifestyle so that actually, if we want to, you know, disappear off to airbnb at last minute for a long weekend. You know we can go and do that and you know maybe we take the laptop because there's work to do or maybe we don't because you know we can. We can do that because we've got a bit of time, but you know, part of this decision was looking at that kind of medium to long term.
Speaker 2:How can our life look, you know, over the next 10, 20 years? How does that interact with our careers? And yeah, that's that's kind of our dream. Um, I say all that and then I know there's still a teeny tiny chance that in 10 years if you know, I'm saying like I was with the old job, 10 years in that I think, well, now I want to do something else and grow it bigger or move into a new area. But, um, yeah, realistically, that's that's kind of how the next you know couple of years looks for us no, thanks for sharing.
Speaker 1:I think, like I say, working with somebody that you know and trust and creating that whole work-life balance is a whole new level in terms of if you, if you very much, and there is a few people that spring to mind when you sort of said about that. There is a few people that I know who have gone down exactly the same route as you have in terms then created that whole family business, which has then sort of reaped benefits because of that whole. That's just talking about that and people buy into that a little bit more because of that sort of the thing that you've sort of created. So, uh, not fair play mate, although even if you do get an itch thinking there's something else in 10 years time.
Speaker 1:We've got plenty of things in our industry equity release, we've got full financial advising. There's plenty of things you sort of can do that are, uh, just as boring as mortgages. No, I'm sorry, and then that is, that is a different aspect altogether. So but, bro dave, thank you so much for your time. Thank, thank you for coming on to the podcast and agreeing to come on finally, and it's been good to have a chat and uh, get to and go through sort of like and taking you down that road of the past and why you got into this and those thoughts and feelings, and I really appreciate you trusting me with no agenda and, like I said, I genuinely do appreciate you sharing the sort of where you've been and a little bit of the future as well, which is which is all good. So thanks very much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no thanks for having me, greg Appreciate it. Thanks, yeah, no thanks having me.
Speaker 1:Greg appreciate it. Thanks, dave, thanks for that. Thanks for agreeing to come on to your first podcast and sharing your experiences and the challenges and the real world of what you face within the change of industry, change of career, why you did it so, uh, yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. I'm really giving an honest account of, uh, how the journey has been for you so far. And if you found today's episode then useful, please don't forget to follow the podcast, leave a review and share it with other mortgage brokers that you feel need to hear the messages that come from this podcast. And if you are thinking about becoming a self-employed mortgage broker or looking to set up your own brand of business, or you're looking to scale and grow your existing business, please see my website, craigskeltoncouk book in a discovery call, or just send me a WhatsApp and let's have a chat about how I can help you achieve your goals for the rest of 2025 and beyond that. And always, please don't forget to run your own race.