Mortgage Broker Broadcast
Developing your knowledge to help you build a successful Mortgage Broker business. Craig Skelton shares his thoughts and experiences on all aspects of mortgage advice covering everything from operating in the banking world, estate agency based advisers all the way up to working as a self employed broker. He will be joined by experts from within the industry and other business sectors which all play a key part in becoming a successful mortgage broker in the modern world.
Mortgage Broker Broadcast
From Employee to Owner: Navigating Your Mortgage Brokerage Journey
Have you ever felt that persistent inner voice urging you to break free and build your own mortgage brokerage? Craig welcomes back Jonathan Needham just four weeks after his previous appearance to address the remarkable feedback their conversation generated among brokers contemplating self-employment.
The pair dive deep into why so many qualified mortgage professionals struggle to make the leap from employment to independence. They explore how current employers often undermine confidence by planting seeds of doubt and how family and friends who don't understand the industry might unintentionally discourage your entrepreneurial dreams. As Jonathan powerfully notes, "A cemetery is littered with people who wished they'd done something about that little voice."
Both hosts share their perspective on the challenges of transitioning to self-employment, from managing impostor syndrome to balancing client work with business development. They emphasize that simply being good at arranging mortgages isn't enough – success requires understanding how to work both IN and ON your business. For those with aspirations to build and eventually sell a brokerage, they touch on what creates true business value beyond personal production.
What sets this conversation apart is the hosts' abundance mindset and genuine desire to help fellow professionals succeed. Unlike recruitment efforts with hidden agendas, Craig and Jonathan are motivated purely by helping brokers establish themselves on better platforms to execute their plans. This authentic approach resonated strongly with listeners of their previous episode, revealing a significant need for honest guidance in the industry.
The episode concludes with the announcement of a free, anonymous webinar on July 3rd (6-8pm), offering a comprehensive roadmap for those considering self-employment. Join Craig, Jonathan, and successful brokers who've made the journey from employment to ownership as they share practical advice, answer questions, and provide the support you need to turn your dream into reality. What's holding you back from taking the leap?
To book your space on the webinar, email events@thebrokerfoundry.com
Looking for one to one mentoring, visit my website to see how it works craigskelton.co.uk
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Hi and welcome to this week's the Mortgage Broker broadcast. My guest this week is Jonathan Needham, and Jonathan was on the podcast 16th of April, so only sort of four or five weeks ago that he was on the podcast, and before that it was four years ago before that. But the reason why I wanted to get Jonathan back on which we will explore quite a lot in the podcast, and so the introduction will be quite short, you'll be pleased to know. But so, yeah, he's back on the podcast. We did the podcast. The feedback we've had from the podcast has been really, really good. We've had a lot of thoughts, a lot of comments, a lot of suggestions and really Jonathan and I then had a conversation on the back of that and so I said, right, we're going to do something, let's put something together and also as well getting back on the podcast to explain. So let's just get Jonathan onto the podcast. So welcome back onto the podcast, jonathan Needham. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm very well, Craig. Yeah, very fresh after a bank holiday weekend.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And the weather's been glorious, which always helps, certainly does Life feels better when the sun is shining, yeah, but uh, yeah, I certainly wasn't expecting uh to be invited back on so soon well, I did say we'd get you back on sooner than the four years.
Speaker 1:So we have that four year gap. We're now going for four week gap. I think it is so yeah one extreme to the other yeah, so you were on the podcast. For those that haven't listened to that one so far, which we're going to talk about, um, that podcast was 16th of april. That podcast was out, so we're just four weeks later. So yeah, four years, four weeks there. There's some symmetry there, yeah absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, it's been quite overwhelming really, hasn't it the feedback that we've had following the last podcast going live? You know, I thought to myself when we ended the recording. It was just two lads from York rambling on, but seemingly it's provided some value to people and that was the objective really.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think that's the thing. Yes, we've got our target audience in terms of the podcast. We've got our regulars that download it every single week in, week out, but I think, and when I get regular feedback, every single week I'll get feedback and comments and thoughts on on the podcast. However, I was pleasantly surprised, um, that the feedback that that we both had and I don't I, I got a lot of feedback me personally and through the, through my social media channels where the podcast is released um, and so the feedback was was amazing and really good. Well, it is every week, but the one that we did together was, uh, to set to new heights, shall we say.
Speaker 2:So the feedback was really good and then that sort of sparked a then conversation between you and I, because then you reached out to me and sort of said feedback's been really good, so yeah, yeah, absolutely, and and you know, I think the conversation that we had I started it off by saying I think we're onto something here, craig, because the number of messages, direct messages and conversations that I've been having with brokers who have listened to it certainly suggest to me that there is a definite appetite from lots of people who are currently sat in an environment that they're not entirely happy about, whether that's the currently employed as brokers or even self-employed brokers who are operating within an AR firm, and they know quite clearly where they ultimately want to get to, but they're not entirely sure about how to navigate from A to B.
Speaker 2:And I know we only really touched on that, I think quite briefly, in the previous podcast we did. It seems to me that it's something that's really stood out and, yeah, following our meeting, it was encouraging that you were thinking the same as myself, that you were thinking the same as myself that there's definitely an opportunity for us to provide some further. Whether you want to refer to it as education or insights or guidance, whatever that might be, I think there's definitely an opportunity for us to help people, opportunity for us to help people, and I think that's where you and I sort of share a similar philosophy, that you know, our ultimate objective really is to try and help people become better brokers. Absolutely, I think there's probably an opportunity here for us to help brokers establish themselves onto a better platform for them to then execute their plans. So, and yeah, it was encouraging that you were thinking exactly the same as me.
Speaker 1:Really, yeah, and I think that's it. It's just because we've got the similar mindset, the sort of similarities in a lot of way between the way that we work, our values and the and our past as well, in terms of how our paths have crossed as well. There's so much, as I said before, synergy there that the, the feedback that I got and I asked a few. You and I have been fortunate enough to take a lot of brokers through a process and a journey and been along with that journey with them and seeing the pitfall, seeing what's worked, seeing what hasn't worked, and I think and we've continued to do that now, like, and and I just started to reach out to a couple of the brokers that are fairly new into the journey who I'm working with, that are non-industry C-map in hand, never done a mortgage before, and I just sort of asked for them for some feedback and said I knew what sort of their background was and why they were looking to do that and I always asked them why did they reach out to me in the first place? But I wanted a little bit more meat on the bones of exactly what did they need when they got the C-Map, what did they need? And the feedback was that they needed somebody that they trusted was one that knew that it wasn't sort of like a hidden agenda, sales funnel, bullshit going on, anything like that. They knew that they just wanted honest thoughts, honest feedback, somebody that they knew that they could trust, but in one place. So that's what they said. They wanted that go-to place where they could go. Do you know what? That's how I do this. This is that this is the steps that I'm going to take to get a to build a successful business as a mortgage broker, whether that's having their own firm or however that looked it was, it's just having that one central place and that then with you and I's discussion. And then what the feedback that I was getting. I just thought there is just something more.
Speaker 1:As you said there, jonathan, the thing is for us, we are motivated by helping brokers. That's what we're. We have an abundance mindset. We're very much around supporting brokers. It's very much around doing the right thing for the brokers. No hidden bullshit, like I said, there's no hidden platforms and stuff like that going on with what we do. We're very much. These are our values. This is how we work, and whether we're down the pub or at the match on a saturday afternoon, or we're working with brokers on a monday morning or a tuesday afternoon, wherever they get. We are who we are. There's no like. I mean it is jonathan needham, it is craig skelton. I think that was then part of the feedback that I got as well was then thinking there is that need Because you and I have got that genuine need to help brokers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think people appreciate the honesty. Sometimes it can be raw honesty and, you know not wanting to play too much on where we're from geographically, but maybe it's born from the fact that we're just straight-talking Yorkshiremen and, yeah, there's absolutely no hidden agenda whatsoever and having been introduced to a guy called Simon Sinek not in person, unfortunately, but having listened and read some of his stuff this whole concept of sort of thinking in abundance, you don't necessarily need to compete with other people, you just do the job yourself, whatever that job might be. And you know however many brokers there are in the industry. You know there's a lot are in the industry. Um, you know there's a lot.
Speaker 2:Um, I think, if, if you and I can create and the word that we've used a few times now is community if, if we can create a community feel for people to almost be a part of something, that in turn they take a security and a comfort from. Um, because if you're gonna commit to uh executing your plan of ultimately wanting to build your own brokerage and let's say you're currently an employed, uh mortgage broker in either a bank or a, you know, an estate agency or whatever, you've had this idea in your head and it won't go away and you've made a commitment that you're going to do something about that. You are properly laying yourself on the line. Um, you know, and, and it that in itself takes a bravery and a courage. Now, if you can be part of something, and there are other people on the same journey and, uh, there are also individuals who can provide and share their own experiences and you know, tell you what to watch for and you know the pitfalls of certain things, almost providing you with a sat-nav, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good guess.
Speaker 2:To give you a really good idea of how to get from where you are to where you want to get to. Um, I genuinely believe there's there's an appetite for something along those lines. Um, and, and if that falls on yours and I shoulders, uh, because I certainly don't see anything yours and I's shoulders because I certainly don't see anything that exists currently that you know brokers not just brokers, anybody who might be interested in wanting to build a mortgage brokerage I don't see anything that's readily available at the minute without there being, like you say, an agenda to it. You know whether that's, you know, a sales funnel that ultimately pushes you to a certain point.
Speaker 2:This is just about providing honest direction, honest feedback, providing people with the benefit of our own experience, you know we've transitioned from an employed environment to now self-employed, and I think there's a real challenge around that in terms of how you process that yourself. You know the number of times you wake up in the morning and that little voice says what on earth are you doing? This is too much of a risk. You know, go back to your safe, employed environment, and I've experienced that, and I think, to a certain extent, big employers, big corporate employers, play on that a little bit, you know, and will sow seeds of doubt in people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's all well and good. You're wanting to be, you know, self-employed, run your own firm, but where are you going to get your leads from? Yeah, or whatever it might be. So, yeah, I think it's providing that confidence, that courage, that roadmap, you know, of how to get from where you currently are to where you ultimately want to get to. I think, from our point of view and and again I always say, we need to start with the end in mind let's have a real clarity around where you want to get to, and then we'll work back from that, uh, and provide you with, you know, a bit of guidance and, uh, what have you on how to go about doing it it is.
Speaker 1:Man. I think the thing is like something you touched on there about you've got your c-map and you've got you. Then you do your c-map behind the scenes if you're employed, whether you're an estate agent or you're in a mortgage broker in the stage, and say, whatever the case may be, you you've got your c-map and you're thinking, right, where do I go? Now, as soon as I've seen it so many times where people are prepared to hand the notice in and then they've been told by their employer what you're doing, where you're going, why you're doing that, and then they're then sort of going well, we don't want to plug that gap of you leaving, so we're going to tell you, give you 101 reasons and if you've got any element of doubt in there, you'll start listening, they'll start chipping away, you'll start to listen to them. And if you've not got support from friends and family who get it, who know what running a business is like, who knows what being a mortgage broker is like, knows what day-to-day world is, but they don't understand that. So then they you've got them maybe not got their 100 support from them as well all of a sudden you've wasted time and money to get your c-map and then you step back and go. Do you know what it was? All it was a bit of a dream and, yeah, it sounded really good. But one thing that you said that time and time again I see and hear, is that that voice will never, ever go away. If you've got that inside to think, do you know what I want? That freedom. I want that work-life balance. I want that flexibility. I want to be brave, I want to face those fears and go self-employed. That will never, ever leave you until the day you die. It will always be there. And so, with this sort of thing, that and I see that time and time again and that's where I sort of help brokers currently, the things that we don't do together independently which I'm sure you do as well is helping them to get over that hurdle and go. Do you know what? You are doing the right thing? We'll put these plans together. You are going to make this work.
Speaker 1:So you've got the CMAP element, element of it of being a broker, but there's also the mindset element of it as well of how do you deal with those seeds of doubts, how do you deal with this? Or imposter syndromes, how do you deal with those guilts of. I'm not sat behind my desk for 12 hours, day in, day out. How do you deal with all those things? That, as well, is huge.
Speaker 1:So you've got not just the brokering side of things as well, it's the mindset side of things as well. And if you are building your own business and you want to own your business, you're not in an AR or you're not, but that's, then you've got that sort of triangle effect of. You've sort of got brokering, mindset and business owner and that's and I may be getting a bit passionate about this because I do genuinely care about the brokers that do then, with all the best intentions, decide they want to do this, listen to the elements of doubt and then go and do you know what? Put that blanket back on or do you know what? Doubt a little bit?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because it's, it's um, it's safety into it and, let's face it, we all crave safety and comfort. You know, even if, if we don't think we do, we do because that's how our minds are wired up. It's fight or flight and, um, I think the um, the idea, I think the idea of wanting to be the best version of yourself, whether that's a mortgage broker or whatever, I think is something that should be encouraged. I genuinely believe that and life is incredibly precious and, you know, our own experiences really bring that to the fore. And I know we were talking prior to the recording and I've spoke about my dad passing away very unexpectedly last summer, which had the impact of, you know, a big shovel on the back of my head. You shouldn't have regrets and if there is that voice in your head thinking, yeah, you should do that, you should really, really listen to that voice because unfortunately, you know, a graveyard, a cemetery, is littered with people who wished they'd done something about that little voice, not just being a mortgage broker, whatever it might be. And I think you're right. Something else you said about you know, you've got your C-map, you've got your badge and away you go and again, as we've said previously, a bit like passing your driving test. My oldest daughter passed her driving test yesterday and I said to her that's fine, but now the real learning is going to start when you're out in the car on your own, and again, that's very similar to being a broker.
Speaker 2:But I think brokering to to a certain extent, is probably the simplest bit of the role transitioning into a self-employed role, that is, or a self-employed environment because you've then got to deal with this whole idea of the difference between working in your business and working on your business and the multiple hats that you have to wear. Because if you just carry on with your head down being a great broker but nobody's got an eye on on where your business is headed, uh, have you got a destination, ultimately, for your broker? But then you can spend too much time working on your business and not on the tools generating that cash flow. Um, and then there might be people who think, well, actually I want to build something and sell it. That's great, but do you know exactly how to drive a value into a mortgage brokerage? Because it's not just about you writing a ton of mortgages getting to a point where you then say, right, who's going to buy this off me Because you are the business um, so understanding what builds intrinsic value into a mortgage firm so you can get the the sort of the maximum multiple on on your ebitda, um and and again.
Speaker 2:What is ebitda? Uh, because, as I've said time and time again, because, as I've said time and time again, our industry is littered with jargon and a language that we've just invented ourselves and doesn't mean anything to anybody. But I come back to the fact that I'm fairly confident that the vast majority of us will have an ultimate destination in mind what we want to achieve, the reasons why we want to achieve it, and, if that involves operating within financial services as a mortgage broker or mortgage and protection broker, that you and I can help people. And I even more believe, following the podcast going out last month, that there's an audience of people who would welcome our very honest approach in sort of delivering that path to follow definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1:So just to wrap up the podcast, then. So we've we've sort of we've talked about last time. We've talked about a lot of things which have been really good in the the short podcast we've gone today. So we put our heads together. Do you want to explain, then, sort of what this all means to then the brokers that are listening to this who are thinking about going self-employed or are already self-employed?
Speaker 2:yeah, so, um, we've decided to run a webinar, a free event, um, which is going to take place on the 3rd of july, uh, for two hours between 6 pm and 8 pm. Um, free to enter. Um, there will be details. I think at some point, uh, that will give um an explanation as to how you register your details, um, and if we get one person on or 100 people, um doesn't matter, because what we're going to be doing through the two hours is just providing a step-by-step guide, if you like, or a roadmap as to the things that you need to consider if you're currently thinking about moving to becoming a self-employed mortgage and protection broker. In a very easy to follow, step-by-step kind of guide process way. There'll be an opportunity for a live Q&A way. There'll be an opportunity for a live Q&A.
Speaker 2:We appreciate that the vast majority of people who will be tuning in may want to do so anonymously, so we're creating a mechanism for people to do that, and there's every chance that we'll have certainly one, if not a couple of people on the webinar who've worked with us, going back to them being non-qualified. You know they haven't got the-map and we've worked with them. We've sponsored them to go and do their exams, they've become trainee brokers and these individuals are now very successfully running their own brokerage. So you'll hear from the horse's mouth, so to speak, real life examples of people who've been on this journey and who've reached their sort of destination. Um, so, so, yeah, that's what we're doing. Third of july a couple of hours. Uh, you can, you can register anonymously, um, and then, uh, as we've said, if it provides people with a bit more of an insight, a bit more of an understanding as to what they need to be thinking about to move from A to B, yeah, definitely, I think that's like you say.
Speaker 1:Gives them that roadmap. You talked about the SAP NAV. The notes will all have the links and how to register your details. As Jonathan said, they're totally anonymous when you attend the webinar. You won't see each other, each other's names, on there. So do not panic and do not worry. You'll be able to sit there, total quiet, and it's just listening to jonathan and I, along with the other guests, that we've got, sort of who, as jonathan said, who've gone through that journey, um, that you are looking to to go on, or people on the pod on the webinar that are looking to go on, or people on the webinar that are looking to go on.
Speaker 1:And I think, like I say, it's just going to give you very honest thoughts and feedback in terms of that blueprint of what can go well, what can go wrong, how to avoid those kind of things, the landscape, the transition, even things like talking about handling your noticing and dealing with rejection from your existing employer and all those kind of things, because those are the things you've got to prepare yourself for.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it's going to be certainly an action-packed two hours between the pair of us and a couple of guests, but hopefully that will give people there that are listening and listening and they're watching the opportunity to think do you know what? I will be brave, will stop those the the voices in my head. I will step out my comfort zone. I will look at doing that transition because, as you said, jonathan, it is about that for us, it's about that community. It's about helping having that abundance mindset and helping those right individuals who do want to step out of the comfort zone. It's about those right individuals who do want to step out of the comfort zone. It's about those right individuals who will then feel as though they're getting the help and support in that, with that blanket around them as much as they can, they're sort of taking the blanket off a little bit and we're still holding it for them, but they are on their own kind of thing.
Speaker 1:But no 3rd of July. Links are in the notes.
Speaker 2:And I think, following the feedback that we had from the previous podcast, we'll be delivering it in a very honest, open sort of our own unique way and seemingly, I think it's that that people appreciate more than anything. There's no edge to this. We'll just tell it you as it is. So, yeah, I think there's definitely an appetite for that kind of communication within an industry that perhaps sometimes there isn't an awful lot of abundance in that regard.
Speaker 2:You know, if you get hold of somebody who's trying to recruit for a certain environment, wherever that might be. They may well try and convince you that the moon is made of cheese, because you know they're perhaps working to a target and they need you to sign along the dotted line, so to speak, whereas you know there's no. Our only objective in doing this is to provide you with honest support and a bit of guidance. That's all.
Speaker 1:Definitely.
Speaker 1:And I think, just to give clarity in terms of who this is for, really we haven't with with abundance mindset, we're not really limited in terms of you might be a broker already, you might be working for a bank or an estate agent, you might, or you might be an advisor or a broker already thinking about the transition, or you might just got your c-map or even starting thinking about your c-map and thinking about you want to become a mortgage broker, as you said before.
Speaker 1:You just sort of said about the, the brokers that might be, ars that think, and actually they don't get that help and support thinking actually could I learn from this in terms of I've not been able to deal with the transition and I'm thinking about going back to where I was before doing leaving the industry altogether. There is no like we're not putting this on a on a shelf and saying, right, this is who is going to fit. It can fit anybody in the journey, even if it's just somebody who wants to just tune in your experience, broker or being self-employed a few years just might help and sharpen the tool, shall we say for one of the better words.
Speaker 2:So we're not, we're not limiting this, it's just about you and I giving honest in our own unique kind of style and kind of way, and I think that's sort of yeah and and again, as I've said a few times, and as if you said, if if it helps one person, then that's a massive tick in the box, if it helps multiple people, then that's even better. So yeah, we'll look forward to seeing you tune in then.
Speaker 1:Brilliant, jonathan. Thanks for agreeing to come back on the podcast so soon. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule and, yeah, I'm looking forward to the session taking the time out of your busy schedule and, um, yeah, I'm looking forward to the session on the 3rd of july where, uh, we, uh, where we get going likewise mate, I'll see you then.
Speaker 1:All right, speak to you soon, mate, cheers. Thanks for that, jonathan, thanks for agreeing to come back on to the podcast and giving another honest account of yourself. So really appreciate that. If you, as I said in the podcast, if you are interested about the webinar, there's all the links in the show notes. So if you've got any questions or thoughts on the webinar, please reach out as well. Send me a direct message and I will come back to you straight away Any questions you've got. But I would encourage anybody who is thinking about becoming self-employed, or already self-employed as a broker to just book in. It's going to cost you two hours of your time and, yeah, you're going to get an action-packed two hours on the 3rd of July. So please register. Thanks for listening to this week's podcast. Please leave a review, please subscribe, please share with other mortgage brokers who can help and benefit from this podcast. Any thoughts, any comments, any feedback? Please leave them on whatever platform you listen to the podcast. No-transcript.