Mortgage Broker Broadcast
Developing your knowledge to help you build a successful Mortgage Broker business. Craig Skelton shares his thoughts and experiences on all aspects of mortgage advice covering everything from operating in the banking world, estate agency based advisers all the way up to working as a self employed broker. He will be joined by experts from within the industry and other business sectors which all play a key part in becoming a successful mortgage broker in the modern world.
Mortgage Broker Broadcast
Navigating the Evolving Equity Release Market: Insights and Innovations with Mark Thompson
Equity release specialist Mark Thompson returns with invaluable insights into the evolving landscape of later-life financial planning. Learn how Mark's transition from estate agency management to specializing in equity release has empowered him to address the unique challenges faced by individuals in their later years, emphasizing the importance of personal connection and trust. Mark's dedication to providing genuine, no-pressure advice, even when it comes without financial gain, shines through as he shares poignant anecdotes from his journey.
Our conversation takes a deep dive into the nuances of advising on equity release products, with an emphasis on the distinctions between lifetime mortgages and Retirement Interest-Only (RIO) mortgages. Mark highlights the vital role of specialization and the power of education in maintaining strong broker-client relationships. We also examine the equity release market's recent fluctuations, reflecting on the impact of interest rates and the sector's resilience as it gears up for a potential recovery heading into 2025.
The episode wraps up with a forward-looking discussion on emerging trends and innovations within the equity release market. From the reduction of early repayment charges to the introduction of hybrid products, lenders are evolving to meet consumer demands and inflation pressures. Mark shares how the increasing acceptance of equity release as a standard financial strategy for later life is driving this growth, along with tips for industry professionals looking to navigate the shifting landscape and leverage opportunities for their clients.
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Hi and welcome to this week's the Mortgage Broker broadcast. My guest this week is equity release specialist Mark Thompson, and Mark's back on the podcast. He's been on before, but I wanted to get him back on the podcast at the start of 2025 to talk about, to have a bit of a review of what the market was like for equity release in 2024. But, more importantly, what does 2025 look like for the equity lease market? I also wanted to get him on the podcast to just have a bit of a chat about how he's working with mortgage brokers and their equity release referrals and the success that he's having so far this year with those. So, yeah, that's why Mark's back on the podcast.
Speaker 1:If you are joining us for the first time, then I'm your host, craig Skelton, I'm your mortgage broker firm and I'm also a coach and mentor dedicated to helping self-employed mortgage brokers and business owners with their mortgage broker business. So before we get into the podcast, if you do like this podcast, please like it, please share it, please leave us a review. I would much appreciate it. It just helps us to reach more mortgage brokers who could benefit from the insights from the podcast. So now let's just get Mark onto the podcast. So welcome back onto the podcast. Mark, how are you?
Speaker 2:Good form, good form, can't complain. Not getting as much golfing as I would like, but hey-ho, it's January, december, so can't really complain.
Speaker 1:The sun is shining as well today, mark, so you have to be in a good mood, january, and the sun is shining as well today, mark. So you have to be in a good mood, january, and the sun is shining. It's the end of January. This is going out on the first Tuesday in February, so yeah, so it's the end of January, beginning of Feb, and the sun is shining.
Speaker 2:Well, I like getting January out of the way because all my compliance comes up in January. So I've had more tests than soft mix. So, quite frankly, I can soft mix. So, quite frankly I I can kiss goodbye all the testing, role plays and everything else I had to do. So that's that's why I'm happy to see the back of january.
Speaker 1:I can just focus on 11 months of doing business now yeah, exactly, you're free now to do the business, so but mark, do you? Want to, like I said thanks for coming back on and I want to get you back onto podcast to have a catch up on the equity release market.
Speaker 2:But you want to just do a quick introduction about you and your and what you do um, well, yeah, obviously now I'm an equity release specialist, so all I do is equity release, lifetime mortgages, uh, uh, as you're aware, I came out of a state agency quite a few years ago now it's amazing how time flies started doing standard mortgages, mortgages protection, and didn't quite enjoy that, having come out of, you know, state agency management. But I found that whilst I was doing that, I was also making referrals to people for equity release and I was doing more and more referrals on that and thought you know what? I'd like to probably specialize in Equit release more. The thing I didn't like about standard mortgages is I was always I like to know as much as I can and everything about everything. So for me, put you know, having so many lenders, so many variables, it just added my brain. It was like, you know, that was yesterday, this is today. I just I just couldn't get my head around it. Um, so I thought equity seems a little little simpler for my mind and more straightforward and not as much change. So that drew me into that. Um, then of course, I could really start changing with lots of products and lots of variations. So in a way that got back to that sort of situation Although I suppose the one thing I didn't like about standard mortgages is the client ringing up saying, oh, we just bought a house yesterday.
Speaker 2:You know we've put the offer in, had it accepted, and can I have? You know, I need a mortgage now, and I always think, oh my God, uh. You know we've put the offer in, had it accepted, and can I? You know I need a mortgage now, and I always think, oh my god, you know, here we go, pressure, pressure, pressure, um, so uh, I like equity release um that's what you're saying.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm 63 now, so I'm slowing up as well a bit. So it suits people seem to to respond to me because I'm old as well generally when I'm speaking to them. So they take on board. You know that I've got a bit of life experience. I'm with them in terms of age and where they are and all the things that later life starts to throw at you. So it tends to sit well with me. So I really, really enjoy it.
Speaker 2:And it's back to helping people in just about making money for me. You know, oh yeah, okay, I've got pensions and things I can I'm taking, but I do it primarily because I need to keep busy, I need to keep my brain active. I like helping people and you know that that's what it's about. It's about taking something that's got a life problem and and sorting it out for them. And you know it's really satisfying when you know you're able to help somebody out of a real financial hole. Um, in what you do, um, you know it's so much so to the point that quite often I don't know other advisors like this. But like I've got a case at the moment where I'm still helping the client, even though I'm probably not going to earn anything out of it I never will but I feel so sorry for this old lady that's lost her husband. I'm now helping her with all sorts of stuff, um, you know, but hey ho yeah, but that's a level of service that you've always given.
Speaker 1:I think that's that's testament to you and your values, and also as well of why which we'll get on to when we're talking about referrals, about why you do convert very well the leads that you do get sent by brokers. Then you do convert very, very well, and we've already actually paused the podcast already and interrupted from a broker sent another referral to you, which is obviously, which is good news, but we were able to pause the podcast yeah, yeah, I've got it.
Speaker 2:I've got to ring them back as soon as we've finished and it's great. It's great that they trust me they they've ever trusted me, that they trust me with their clients and they also trust me with their business, because if something isn't right for equity release, you know I'd steer them back to the advisor.
Speaker 2:You know I don't. You know it's not just what. You give me the lead Now, it's my lead, it's their lead. At the end of the day, if it isn't quite right and I look, I'm talking to customers, they think no, no, you should be really looking at a standard mortgage, or you know, rio, or whatever, I'll just pass them back to the advisor. I think that's that can be an issue with some leads is that some clients are in between is it equity release? Is it standard? Is it a Rio? What, what is it? And and, as you know, I'm spending a bit of time with a few of our advisors at the moment just trying to help them sort of understand. You know when is it the right time to say actually have you considered a lifetime? Know when is it the right time to say actually have you considered a lifetime mortgage? And this might be the right thing for you, as opposed to a standard mortgage or whatever.
Speaker 2:You know, occasionally I get some people just keep sending me things saying, oh, lifetime mortgage, lifetime mortgage, and I think, well, hang on. You know it isn't necessarily a lifetime mortgage, you know it could be a standard mortgage. You really looked into it properly for the client in that sense.
Speaker 1:I think that's it. I think that's the which will I've got part of why I wanted you to come back onto podcasts. It's been a few years since you came on initially and I think, yes, it is. We want to talk about 2024 market and what happened and, more importantly, what the market looks like for 2025. But I think that's it is about, and that part of the reason why I wanted to see on the podcast was it is about education for the, for the mortgage brokers that are talking to clients who do need and we're not just sort of saying no and then moving on because they can't do the equity release. Having that education and understanding the difference between the products is key, absolutely, but it's also as well spotting those opportunities when the clients may not be right for the standard mortgage, and you've gone down that route and you've exhausted all possibilities. The equity release is still an option for those right clients and, talking to you, like you say, brokers trust you, which they do, because I've seen that firsthand is them brokers who maybe don't know you I've never seen you before but just building up that trust with you.
Speaker 1:So then think you know what mark is a great equities advisor. He does specialize on that, which is a key thing. Like we, we talk all the time about brokers niching and specializing certain things. You do specialize and you were talking about this every single day, so who better to ask questions to or refer to than you? Because, no, you're not going to steal their protection. No, you're not going to steal their mortgage, because you don't. You clearly stare. From the start of the podcast, you got out of the mode thei Mortgage game because you didn't want to do that, which is fine.
Speaker 1:So that's peace of mind for the broker thinking oh yeah, that's great, mark, but you do because you see it from a broker's point of view, and communication is the key. You do give feedback to the broker. You do try and educate the broker. So the ones that you work with who have reached out to start and now referring to you, you have educated them. There's an amazing relationship there and they know that they, they know and trust you to go mark, what do you think? This? Or ask you this quick question, but at the same time, they understand the difference between, well, is this client right?
Speaker 1:It's all about client outcomes and it's about what's right for the client. And equity release is right for the client sometimes, but then real is right for the client sometimes, but then rio is right for the client sometimes. Standard mortgages is right and it's about looking at the different options that you can advise on. If you've gone down that room and think, well, it's not a rio and it's not a standard, right, let me get on the phone to mark and let me have a chat with him and then mark says yes, it's an equity release case. That's the perfect relationship that I've sort of seen that you have with quite a few brokers, which is amazing yeah, and, and I encourage them to ring me at whatever stage they want to to chat it through.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, I mean one broker, bless her. She kept, she kept bringing me up and I think she felt guilty every time she spoke to me. It wasn't quite right and she saw I'm ringing you up again. I said they ring me up 10 times a week, it doesn't bother me. Um, you mentioned the point there with Rios.
Speaker 2:Uh, you do get some brokers, however, that uh, do Rio or look at Rio, but dismiss lifetime mortgages. You know, I've come across brokers that have dismissed a lifetime mortgage and have not even entertained it. Um, I even had one, if you remember, I was doing a session a few months ago where one broker said oh yeah, I had a client bringing up wanting a lifetime mortgage, but I said I gave her a Rio and I nearly fell off my chair. You know it was like wow, a client wants a particular product and you've talked her out of it. Because I said what do you know about lifetime mortgages? Well, nothing. I'm like wow.
Speaker 2:So you know, quite often you find that clients, once you understand the difference between a lifetime mortgage and a Rio, they don't want a Rio. I'm not saying that's always the case, but the lifetime mortgage is a very flexible product and so, again, it's education and advisors understanding well what is the difference between a lifetime mortgage and a Rio. You know, and working it from that basis and quite often when I'm doing my sessions with advisors, that's what I would do I'd say, right, let right, let's just you know, what do you understand about real, what do you understand about a lifetime mortgage? Let's just cover off all those bits and you know gaps in your knowledge, so to speak, and then then they can make their own decisions from that, you know that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the thing, like you say, is, then they can make their own decisions from there, can't they? You're not, so you did, you've got choices from that, from that outcome. What so in terms of? I don't want to dwell too much on 2024, because obviously it's about moving forward and about so. But 2024 good year, bad year for equity release what was the market like?
Speaker 2:uh well, 2024, towards the end of it, started the equity release market started to recover. I mean mean, obviously, post-least Trust. As we're probably all aware, head in hand, the market had a record. If you look at Equitrol East in 2022, and I know you didn't want to go into too many figures, but 2022 had a record year with nearly £6 billion worth of borrowing, so it was absolutely storming along. Then, of course, we got all the market terminals and everything else and it dropped to the floor um, nearly halved in 2023. And then 2024 was obviously tragic.
Speaker 2:At the beginning of 2024 it dropped away quite badly because the problem with interest rates on a lifetime mortgage you know you're borrowing money for life you know any slight variation interest rate, and especially if it's compounding, has a major impact on whether it's something the clients want to do. But thankfully and this always happens, you know people are just put off. I always say in business I've always said, you know, when I was an estate agent all those years ago, okay, if you have a bad few months because people aren't moving, those people don't go away. The need to move doesn't go away. You'll just get busier at a later period it'll come back and I think that's what's happening in the equity release market now. Everybody was putting it on hold you know I can't borrow enough for it's too expensive or whatever but gradually, as things have stabilized and your rates have stabilized, that's come down a bit. Lends, a value has gone up a bit more again. Um, they're not back to where they were, don't get me wrong. I mean, in 2022, 23, 21 we should have all been doing equity. It was so cheap, you know, to borrow money, um, but yeah, people started to come back and it's interesting that. You know, certainly I'm feeling a lot busier. All the BDMs I'm talking to are a lot busier.
Speaker 2:One interesting point and this is probably down to the interest rates is a number of people doing drawdown. You know facilities where they're having money in reserve so they only pay the interest the prevailing interest rate at the time to draw it. That's increasing because the customers are getting a bit savvy and thinking, actually, I want equity release, I need it, but I'll get a reserve facility and I'll draw it down when I feel comfortable, you know, and in the hope that the interest rates will come down a bit further. So the actual number of plans on drawdown was over 50%. It was only 56%. So you know, the half of people are not just taking a lump sum, but they're also thinking right, I've got money to draw down on at a later stage, for whatever reason. But some of that is because they're thinking well, I only pay the interest rate at the time I draw it. I don't have to draw it. If I don't need to, I'll hang on to it, but it's there if I want it and need it in the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, that's the beauty of that product. So you said 2024 was positive towards the end of the year. So you're saying the end of the year, so you're saying like the end of the year has seen more inquiries and certainly for, and what really sparked you to come back onto podcasts again was January sort of being a bit of a lift off. Like you said there, people that haven't done equity, when the market has gone a bit quiet, there's still a need, there's still people interested, there's still people interested, there's still people wanting to do this, and so all we've sort of found now is that they've just moved forward into January and you're sort of extremely busy again with the leads coming in. So the 2025 does look very sort of positive from that point of view.
Speaker 2:Very much so Back in the 24, early 25. I mean, the last three quarters have all increased in terms of business generally across the board, not for me, but they have for me as well. But at the moment the leads are just as you know. I like to sort of do a certain amount of business. I don't want to be nine to five, you know, 24-7. I've done that all my life. So I like to sort of, you know, just be nice and steady. Recently I've been extremely busy all of a sudden, you know, with certain brokers just passing me you know, business after business, after business, and, to be fair, I'm a bit worried because I'm reverting back to that guy that used to work 24-7 and just do it because it was there, you know, and all of a sudden I'm losing sight of it. Playing less golf, doing more equitably but hey-ho, pays for the holidays, keeps me busy and I enjoy doing it.
Speaker 1:So it's not the end of the world, I'm not complaining exactly and I think they say you'll never get back to that 24 7 work in this agency world that we used to work in. And I think the thing is mark that, with regards to one thing to sort of point out we really didn't touch on is that we talked about trust and things like that. But in terms of the brokers that you work with already and you have it, the conversion is very, very good. From what I've seen and the referrals that you've had in from brokers, the client's either not doing it full stop, they're not doing equity release anymore, or they're using you as their equity lease advisor. So that's testament to you in terms of what you do.
Speaker 1:So it might not be as fast-paced in terms of that kind of the world that brokers are used to with the resi stuff, but ultimately it's that gap between. This is sometimes where brokers who go to pension investment can't cope with that longer process of signing up the client. So you've transactional, residential see a client, do a fact find, do your research, sign them up, they move in. It's like a three-month thing, whereas equity lease is a little bit longer than that. But it's not quite as bad as the pension investment stuff which is very much ongoing and stuff like that as well. So it just bridges that gap. But I think it's good to acknowledge and recognize that you do convert because you like. See I'm not being detrimental to you when I say something, but the public, the client, clientele, will resonate with you a little bit more than they would do with a 30-something on the end of the telephone. Who's in a call centre environment? I think that's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's fair. The other thing is I'm not desperately pushing them to complete. I'm in a great situation where you know I can afford to go several weeks or months without any money coming in. If that was the case, it's not happening, but I can afford to do that. So every time a customer comes in front of me, I'm not looking at them as a I need to earn money. Therefore I need to push this through. I'm just looking at them as a customer needs my help and it may be.
Speaker 2:A lifetime mortgage is the right thing for them. That must convey itself to them somehow because they don't feel pressure. I go at their speed. I'm happy to go when they feel comfortable. That's the one thing I have noticed. Between standard mortgages and equity releases, the clientele are completely different in the speed in which they want to work and if you as if you try and work too quickly with an equity release customer, you'll just lose them, blow them away. They'll just start to lose confidence because they'll think that you're working for yourself and you're just trying to push it through, as opposed to them. So there's a you know them. So there's a real balance in trying to move the business through.
Speaker 2:Don't get me wrong, but without making the customer feel as though they're being rushed and hurried and everything else, plus the fact if they've been referred by a broker and it's not down to me, it's down to the fact that they trust the brokers that have referred to me. So that's the. That's what makes it more effective as well. If I get business from a broker, generally I'm thinking, yeah, unless they don't need it or can't get it, it's going to come off because they've got to trust in that broker, you know, and um, that broker trusts me. So there's a, there's a level of trust there running all the way, all the way through with it, whereas if you get somebody off a general internet inquiry, you know they don't know me from Adam. They don't know I'm trustworthy. They have not a clue. And, to be fair, I always say as well, every time I put the television on it's all about scams. I mean every morning it's scam, this scam, that scam, the other.
Speaker 2:The older generation must be frightened, stiff, to talk to anybody about anything, because it's been in the you know, thrown down the throats every day that you know things could be a scam. So you can sense with a lot of people they it's something they want to look into, but they've got this hazy. I don't know. This is a good thing to do and I really don't want to get caught out with this and you know there's a reticence, so there's a very fragile relationship, certainly at the beginning, that you've got to establish a good trust with them, um, and for them to understand, you know and you know. But hey, normal brokers are doing that all day long. It will be the same for a standard broker. I would never try and teach them to suck eggs, you know.
Speaker 1:No, no, but I think it's. Also. It's a good point in terms of from a client point of view because, also, as well, you've chosen to be a member of the Equity Release Council, which is not something that you have to be. It's not part of a regulation, you don't have to be part of that, but you've chosen to be part of that because, then, that again, you've got your standards, you've got your values. It's all about the service and it's also about the client and their needs, and if it's not right for them, you won't be recommended.
Speaker 1:You're not chasing the pound in that kind of way, which then just backs up with regards to that's not just you talking about it, then go back to buy. Well, this is the equity release council, I'm a member of that and these are the standards that they are dealing me to and the way I conduct my business. So it's a good point in terms of, yes, scams and stuff like that, but then the peace of mind is that you've got this independent governing body that you are part of. That sort of says look, you've got a safe pair of hands in this world with regards to equity release yeah, very much so, and I encourage clients to go on there and check me out.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I send them the link and say look, go on the site if you get a chance, check me out, check out my reviews, you know, um, and so I. I do that with all clients as soon as possible to try and get them to at least check out their council's website as well. Um, and again, that's just another security measure for them, isn't it?
Speaker 1:it's, it's not, you know, um um, exactly that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just reinforces it, just reinforces it for them. Yeah, and I'm I'm proud of the reviews we get. We haven't had with every client we've ever done equitably. Sport has given us a five-star review. We haven't had one not give us a review and one not give us a five-star review, and that's's over several years. So at the end of the day, we must be doing something right. I once got a two-star review when I did Standard Mortgages. I think that's what I got out of it. I thought I can't be doing this, and I remember it wasn't even the lad that I did it for, it was his dad.
Speaker 1:It wasn't even down to you. They were complaining about the solicitors.
Speaker 2:Down to you, they were complaining about the solicitors. I remember that. I know you remember that one. I was absolutely infuriated. I thought it was nothing to do with me. It was to do with the solicitors.
Speaker 1:The dad didn't want us to use the solicitors.
Speaker 2:It was, I made that call.
Speaker 1:I said so you're alright with Mark. You're okay with Mark. Oh, Mark's been amazing, what a service he's given me. You've given two stars, yeah, because okay, fine, we'll move on. We're not going to be able to educate you well. So, in terms of with regards to the criteria of equity release, have you sort of seen much change recently in terms of that sort of being relaxed a little bit to sort of welcome more different types of properties to the market than what they had before?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, a little bit. I mean mortgage companies. It's amazing, as the market drops, they all start loosening their criteria a bit, don't they? I mean, as we know, with equity release, the criteria really is are you old enough and what's your property like? And then there's millions of criteria about the property. You know criteria about the property, you know, and I've noticed that some companies have started to relax their view on, you know, just, for instance, flat roofs. You know some of them would say, oh no, if it's got more than 35% flat roof, we're not interested, okay. All of a sudden, oh well, you know, we'll look at it. Over 50% or 60% or whatever. Now there's companies that say, no, well, 100% flat roof we'll look at you know. So all of a sudden, you know you can see people relaxing their credit because there's no point being in the business if you can't get your share of the business, and so they are relaxing the criteria, and obviously they're all.
Speaker 2:One interesting point is early repayment charges. In fact, you know, like ERCs, there's a few products out now where there's zero ERCs, depending on people's circumstances, and that's noticeable that quite a few of the companies have started to offer products reducing the ERCs. Again, that's down to the interest rates, because what they're trying to do is allow clients to think, actually, or four-year ERC, you know there's a standard, there's one with a four-year ERC. So they say, look, you know, in four years time you can remortgage, get out of this mortgage, go and get yourself another lifetime mortgage when the interest rates perhaps are going to be a bit cheaper. So they're all a bit conscious that they're trying to encourage people into the market that perhaps are sat on the sidelines.
Speaker 2:Um, again, I've noticed one or two lenders, um, because one lender does it. They all start looking down. They all start thinking, oh, that they'll win more than we will. They'll, you know they'll do less ercs and us down. They all start thinking, oh, they'll win more than we will. They'll, you know, they'll do less ercs and us. So they all start well, no, we need this product, we need that product. Um, and you know, just, lend max lending. Uh, for some of them has gone up, you know.
Speaker 2:Um, in that sense of starting to think, okay, people are a lot of times people don't do equity releases because they can't get enough, they can't borrow enough money to, you know, they might have a 70 grand interest on the mortgage they want to pay off, but unfortunately, due to their age, they can only borrow 60 grand, so they've got a 10 grand shortfall. So, again, some of the lump sums you can get as an initial lump sum, the amount still lend you has gone up because the companies have recognized that there's a need for, you know, recognizing that people need these, need these products. So, yeah, there is a, there is, there is definitely a. I mean, there's obviously hundreds of products, hundreds of different providers behind the scenes that have their own idiosyncrasies about what the product should do, what it should say on the tin. But they are, there are.
Speaker 2:There's some general loose thing and it's just that general natural competition between providers that say, god, we've had a bad 23. You know we've had a bad 2023. 24 is recovering, but we could do with a bit more business. How are we going to get it? You know, um, yeah, so I'm sure that must be happening in the standard market. You know, uh, not that I ever look at the standard market not that you don't get take an interest on that anymore.
Speaker 1:So I think that's obviously showing good signs for the market. The criteria is relax, not relaxing, but relaxing a little bit the yeah. The result I think the thing is with the police market from what I've seen from the outside looking in is that it's about the products of, like you said there, the forever evolving, the forever moving forward with, or we could do this or add this in, or like the, the inheritance guarantee. There's loads of different things I'm obviously talking about every individual one but it's an innovative market because they are looking at products that suit clients and client scenarios more and more and that's just amazing to see.
Speaker 2:That's great from a client perspective and a regulation perspective as well that things are moving forward for the interest of everybody I, I entirely agree, and I and I think equity release or lifetime mortgage in five years, 10 years time, are going to be the norm. They are in other countries, you know, uh, and and later life lending. Uh, people are skin. You know, let's face it, people are skin. I mean, everybody's suffering from the inflationary pressures that we've had. Um, you know, we all go in the supermarket and the auction when, I mean, you know, I stand there with a row of yorkshire and looking at the prices, going how much. That was only two quid last week, it's two pounds. You know, none of us can get our head around how how much things have gone up. They never come down, do they? So there's a lot of people that that need equity release. All their money is tied up in the house prices, in that, in the houses, in the homes, and so it'll be the more the norm that people turn to their main capital investment to take money out of it to support them in their later life.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, and uh, I think the the old days in the 80s and 90s, of the home reversion plan and people who selling the houses off to providers and, you know, having no equity at the end of it. You know all these. You know I invested it in some coffee plantation in brazil and everybody stopped drinking it. You know these things are disappearing. It's that.
Speaker 2:It's all about how we're going to support people in later life with lending, and there are some hybrid products starting to appear as well, where people can start with a standard mortgage but it will automatically revert to a lifetime mortgage after so long. Yeah, that's right, those are going to. I reckon those will just go through the roof. They're just early days yet, but they'll start to go through the roof because people think, yeah, okay, I can take a standard mortgage now, but I know that when I get to, you know, 70 or whatever, it's going to revert to um and you know, revert to an interest only lifetime mortgage. In that sense, um, so that the, the, the retirement mortgage market or the later life mortgage market, is not going anywhere. It's only going to get bigger and these companies can see that, and they can see that by being innovative easy for you to say with their products, they're going to get more of a slice of that market.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I think, like you say, the market is only going one way as far as I can see, certainly because of the demographic of a client. Mark, we've chatted over half an hour on equity release, so we've done pretty well on there. It's been good to get an update on the market as a whole and talking about 2025. So if I'm a broker, say you're thinking I just want to reach out to Mark, I just want to have a chat with him, I want to have a conversation about how we can refer or educate. I want to be part of the education, of being a mortgage broker to help referrals into you. The best way to reach out is LinkedIn. I'll tag you in on the LinkedIn on the podcast. Is that the best way for people to message you? And then, obviously, you can contact them from there.
Speaker 2:They can do LinkedIn, yeah. However, they want to contact me, I mean.
Speaker 1:I can put your email address and that in the notes as well, if you put my email address, phone number in.
Speaker 2:I I'm happy to, you know, to take calls. Um, I mean, we didn't cover it off, but just this one broker that just ran, just you know, as we started this podcast, um, they've passed me one lead a week.
Speaker 1:Okay, one lead a week the only small From the start of the year.
Speaker 2:In the last five weeks they've passed me one lead a week. This would be the fifth that they've passed me, but the four that have passed me they're quite small leads as well in terms of the people borrowing small amounts but then having it on drawdown. So in terms of the commissions that are paid, the more people take up front, that's when there's a bigger commission. But just to give you an idea, in commissions all of those four are going ahead and the small leads they've got in the region of £6,000 referral just for those four small leads.
Speaker 1:So that advice to the broker that's been with you.
Speaker 2:To that broker that passed. It is £6,000. But as you know, one of our own brokers, he got a lead a few months ago, £3,000, just one lead. You know One telephone call. I remember that was a guy that I spoke to, met at the races. He said I don't uh, you know I don't do records release met him at the races. Next minute brings me up got a client a few months later, three grand. You know one, one lead, um, happy days, so um and it's important.
Speaker 1:Obviously it's about the client outcome, absolutely, but then there is the benefit of the kick-on from the referral commission that you do pay out to brokers. So like, yes, it's about client outcome absolutely, but there's also income to be generated from that, so it's a win for everybody.
Speaker 2:Well, I remember when I certainly first started as an advisor and you're building up your pipeline and you, you know it can be a long time before a house purchase goes through and everything else, and I started referring you know which release leads, and all of us I started, you know, a quick phone call, quick chat. Next minute there's a check on the doorstep type thing. I thought, well, you know me, if I could do less work to get more, I thought, well, that works. I, uh, it works for me. And all of a sudden I'm thinking, without those, um, my income would have been a bit iffy at the time, because it, you know, those really supplemented my overall income.
Speaker 2:Um, and I also, again because I was aware of it, I don't know, I just came across more leads and more opportunities because it was always in my mind that, okay, they're talking to me about a standard mortgage or whatever, but is there an equity release in this? Is there a lifetime or unit? Is it relevant for this customer? You know, um. And so I've got some advisors that are referring to me all the time and others that I think, does you. They either don't understand it or it just can't register them that they've got an opportunity in front of them, but anyhow, that's, that's life in.
Speaker 1:In that sense I mean that's that's the point of it like part of this, like about educating the brokers they are. They do feel as though they trust you to then, so you can educate them in terms of knowing that they have got somebody to turn to, to go, do you know what? Just ask a quick question or this might be a lifetime mortgage. I'll just have a quick chat, mark and lo and behold. Quick chat with you and then confirm there is, and then you've got the referral over. So it's better to have the conversation for you and your client than just dismiss it altogether, because somebody will be doing that lifetime mortgage. If there's a client need there and that is right for them, somebody will be doing it. So it's better for you to refer it to somebody that you know and trust than not to not do it at all.
Speaker 1:So perfect yeah, I mean, I'm sorry yeah, great stuff.
Speaker 2:Now I was just going to say a little knowledge is a bad thing and you know some advisors have a very limited knowledge on the product or how it works and can get it wrong, and that's the one thing that you know. Through discussions and whatever, we can make sure that they're not going out and advising the client because they're not authorized to do that, but at least have a bit more comfort when they're talking to somebody about it and how it might work. You know.
Speaker 1:In that sense, it's just having the confidence to know to talk about that. So it's just being able to having the confidence to be able to hold the conversation and then refer it. That's all that brokers need to be able to do. They don't need to advise on it, like you say, or shy away from it.
Speaker 2:It's just being able to have that comfortable conversation. So, yeah, just just ring up and it doesn't matter. There's no such thing as a daft question and if you know, I'm not expecting advisors to have knowledge on it, why would you? You're not doing it? You know, um, you know uh. So certainly, it's just being informed about what might be available to a client in whatever circumstance. Exactly exactly, mark. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1:Thank you for your education about what might be available to the client in whatever circumstance. Exactly exactly, mark. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your education. Thank you for being part of the podcast. Really appreciate you. Coming back on, as I said, make sure you have all the contact details of being the notes of the podcast, so if you think about that, then people will be able to reach out to you. Anyway, easy enough. But thanks so much for your time, really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:No, be able to reach out to you anyway, easy enough, but thanks so much really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:No worries, thanks for yours. Cheers, thanks, mark. Thanks for being a great guest back on the podcast. Really appreciate your time and talking about and educating about equity release, about the market 2024, what the future looks like and how you're working with brokers who are referring their equity release business to you. If you are thinking about becoming a self-employed mortgage broker or looking to start your own mortgage broker brand or business, just looking to accelerate the growth of your existing business see my website, craigskeltoncouk get in touch, send me a message and we'll have a chat about how I can help and support you achieve your goals for 2025. Thank you for listening. As I said, if you like the podcast, please like it, share it, leave us a review. It is much appreciated and, as always, don't forget to run your own race.