Mortgage Broker Broadcast
Developing your knowledge to help you build a successful Mortgage Broker business. Craig Skelton shares his thoughts and experiences on all aspects of mortgage advice covering everything from operating in the banking world, estate agency based advisers all the way up to working as a self employed broker. He will be joined by experts from within the industry and other business sectors which all play a key part in becoming a successful mortgage broker in the modern world.
Mortgage Broker Broadcast
Revolutionising the Mortgage Industry: Adrian Richardson's Journey with Mortgage Wallet
Revolutionising the Mortgage Industry: Adrian Richardson's Journey with Mortgage Wallet
Discover the transformative journey of Adrian Richardson, the visionary mind behind Mortgage Wallet, as we unravel the path from corporate life to successful entrepreneurship. Adrian's 20-year experience as a mortgage broker offers invaluable insights into creating a thriving independent business. By sharing his personal story, Adrian illuminates the courage and strategic foresight necessary to transition from a corporate environment to self-employment, offering a roadmap to anyone considering this bold step. He also highlights how Mortgage Wallet uniquely benefits brokers and clients, particularly in client retention.
Explore the role of technology in revolutionising the mortgage industry through the lens of the Mortgage Wallet app. The app was designed to enhance broker-client communication, providing real-time updates, maintaining a personalized touch, and facilitating ongoing engagement. Adrian discusses how the COVID-19 pandemic accelerated the shift to digital interactions and the necessity of leveraging modern communication trends to stay competitive. By capturing referrals efficiently and using the app to streamline processes, brokers can reinforce client relationships and keep pace with a fast-evolving digital landscape.
Understand the challenges brokers face with client retention and the evolution of lender policies over time. Adrian emphasizes the importance of establishing long-term relationships, cautioning against the risk of clients making uninformed decisions when renewing mortgages online. He also shares the strategic advantages of adopting digital tools that prioritize the client experience, ensuring brokers remain competitive with digital-savvy lenders. Through Mortgage Wallet, Adrian continues to innovate, enhancing the broker-client journey while safeguarding the personalized service that forms the foundation of successful mortgage broker businesses.
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Hi and welcome to this month's Mortgage Broker Broadcast. My guest this month is Adrian Richardson from Mortgage Wallet, and I wanted to get Adrian onto the podcast to talk about Mortgage Wallet but, all importantly, talk about what it's about, why he's created it and he's an experienced mortgage broker, he's an experienced business owner, he's been in the industry quite some time and, yeah, I wanted to explore exactly what Mortgage Wallet is, how it benefits brokers, how it benefits clients and how it benefits, as well, client retention, which is, as I've talked about before, a big thing from a mortgage broker point of view, mortgage broker business point of view of retaining clients as well. So let's just get Adrian onto the podcast. So, welcome onto the podcast, adrian. How are you? I'm very well. Thank you, greg. How are you Good? Yeah, very good. Thank you very good. Great to see you. Long time no see as we get into this podcast. So it's probably it's been a few years.
Speaker 2:It's been a while. Obviously we've both gone down a similar path to a degree and from what our brief conversation kind of previous, it seems to be working out for both of us. So it's good.
Speaker 1:Definitely. Yeah, it's good. We'll get into introductions in a bit about your background in a second, but yeah, it's good to catch up and good to sort of have a chat about where you're at and how well things are doing since you left the corporate world. So yeah, so first of all, for those people that don't know who you are, do you want to do sort of a brief introduction about yourself?
Speaker 2:yeah, sure, adrian Richardson. Um, I, first and foremost, I'm a broker. I've been a broker for over 20 years, started in the corporate world and kind of went up the ranks into management and and went self-employed as a broker nine years ago. And went self-employed as a broker nine years ago, never looked back and yeah, it's gone really well. And since then we've founded or I founded, and the idea behind I'm the owner of Mortgage Wallet, which is what we'll go on to talk about a little bit today, but, yeah, going well, definitely no, and that's it.
Speaker 1:We are here to get into detail about what Mort wallet is, how it sort of started out and really benefits from a broker point of view.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, it's gonna be good to get into because I'm not purposely not booked any demo or anything like that. We've had brief interactions before we, uh, we hit record. But I'm interested to get into detail about mortgage wallet. But I think, like, say, it's good from your point of view, from where you've to take knowledge, sort of like how far you've sort of the transition from going from employed corporate world management into the self-employed world, the mortgage broken, because there's plenty of people that listen to the podcast that are either thinking about doing it or have just done it and um, yeah, it was fair to say that before we hit record. Obviously we were talking a little bit before that we, um, I think we're both unemployable now. I think it is fair to say in a good way yeah, definitely, definitely you. Just, you just won in terms of uh, nine years ago, since you, uh, you went self-employed and um, just over seven for me.
Speaker 2:So I'll give you the uh, you, you've got a fair advantage, so yeah, yeah, I think obviously, craig, you know that it was kind of forced upon me to a degree that I had to go out and do that in a good way and I've never looked back as daunting as it was to begin with. I think you know, if you are in that corporate world and you're even half decent, then taking a lot of the good principles that you learn and I think you'd agree that we both learned a lot of good stuff and in our previous lives and take that with you, reinforce those into, into your processes in day-to-day life, and it can work and it does work for a lot of good people definitely, you're absolutely right, it does, and I think that I say it's it's very much around sort around whether you're forced into it or not.
Speaker 1:It's always a big decision. It's always sort of daunting going from the employed into the self-employed world. Absolutely, it always will be, no matter what you're moving from. Was that because that was going to be my question? Was being self-employed always something that you desired and wanted for a long?
Speaker 2:time, or I think so. But I then think when you go down that corporate route it kind of gets kind of knocked into you that it's, it's a it's a difficult one to bridge that gap between, and you know it's it's there's. There's fine margins between success and failure, and I get that to a degree. And obviously, once you get into a situation where you're kind of relying on the wage and the income and the commission and they make it just at that point where, yes, you know you can go and get more, but what you lose in terms of that security is a difficult one to bridge. And I think we've both kind of been in that situation, as we've already discussed, and I think we've both kind of been in that situation, as we've already discussed, and I think you've just sometimes got to have the courage to go and do it. I always wanted to do it. It was an itch, I always wanted to scratch and, like I say, if you're good, back yourself.
Speaker 1:The words you already come out with. So I love the fact you talk about courage. That's like one thing is having the courage to actually do it, without a doubt. But the second one is security, because I've talked quite a lot about this in the past, about, like you, you know to a certain extent, and I know very much, that being employed you've got no freaking security. There's nothing like there's no, there's no. So people, when I'm looking at people, are coming to the industry looking to go self-employed, using that transition. I say, well, I like the security of being employed. It's literally the other way. When you are self-employed, you have that security. It's down to you, it's in your control, it's your drive, your motivation, everything else. What you've achieved is yours, that's down to you. It's not down to Absolutely. What you've achieved is yours. That's down to you. It's not down to absolutely that obviously you have insecurity to a certain, but there's insecurity whether you're self-employed or employed. So I think that's a.
Speaker 2:I think we both know we've probably had to be in situations where when people haven't performed, you know, in an employed role, ultimately eventually you will lose that. So it's not, if you back yourself, go for it, don't be afraid to do it, because if you like, I say you don't have to do as much to make as much. I think finding the clients in the first instance was always the biggest kind of hurdle and the people I've seen. That's kind of why Mortgage Wallet was kind of born, I suppose, and we will come on to it. But I think getting the clients, your reputation, will go with you when you go self-employed. Your reputation will be out there in your local town or wherever it is that you're based.
Speaker 2:And, like I say, I mean I've never looked back as much as I wanted to do it. I backed myself from day one, saying that I knew what I needed to achieve. I knew how I needed to achieve it. Did I think it was going to go the way it's gone? No, it didn't need to go this way, but it's just got bigger and kind of steamrolled into something that's, you know, a bit of an animal now, but enjoying it still.
Speaker 1:That's the main thing enjoying it, that is. That's the big thing, mate.
Speaker 2:It's about enjoying doing what you're doing there are bits I don't enjoy as well, craig, I'm sure the same for you, but on the main I enjoy it yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're always going to have challenges. You're always going to have days where you're thinking what am I doing? Why have I done this? You ask yourself all the reasons why you decided to do this. However, you'll have that when you're employed. You'll have that with when you're employed. You'll have that with the with knowing that you're going to get paid at the end of like you're going to get a wage at the end of sleep, at the end of the month. That's the only guarantee that's going to happen is that you're going to get paid at the end of this month. That that is it. But and we all face trying to let you see it's just um, yeah, it's enjoying the life of being a mortgage broker. Business owner is what it's all about.
Speaker 1:So we didn't get to talk about the promoting the lives of self-employment, which we've covered nicely. So I wanted to get you on the podcast and hearing about mortgage wallet. So I heard a lot of talk about mortgage wallet. So first of all, do you want to explain exactly what before we get into the hows and the whys and how it came about? What exactly is mortgage?
Speaker 2:wallet. Okay, so mortgage wallet is a mobile app for clients of brokers. So, um, yeah, basically all our clients now have access to a client portal separate to a crm system and they engage with pre, during and post application. And I think we've yeah, it was an idea born in my mind on the back of what I think is a very much a changing kind of industry, and it's changed massively.
Speaker 2:If I go back 20 years, everything that we did was face-to-face with the customer. You couldn't do anything not face-to-face, and obviously, with the way technology's kind of improved and the way that covid hit, and then it was kind of teams meeting, zoom. You know we didn't know that pre-covid what was team and zooms? I had no idea and'm telephone based and things like that. And what we've tried to achieve is to strengthen the relationship between the broker and the customer, despite the fact that technology has expanded that a little bit. And so, yeah, so it's a mobile app for your clients and allows them to communicate with you. It allows you to communicate with them, it gives them updates on the mortgage application process and it does so much more. A demonstration for anybody who wants one we can do, not a problem, but the feedback that we're getting from brokers and from our clients has been unreal, to be honest with you, really, really good.
Speaker 1:Good. So in terms of what they say, well, I'll get all the links in the and we'll talk about like booking demos and things like that at the end. But in terms of you sort of said that that it was your brainchild, was it just what? Is it something you'd always thought about or something you've? What was just? Something happened or what. How did like what was the spark inside? To then think you know what?
Speaker 2:I'm going to create an app I think I focused on a few main problems that I envisaged for us as a good broker firm and I'm thinking well, you know, we're pretty decent at what we do. These are a few of our problems. There's nothing out there for me that fixes those problems. Other people must be having those problems because we're not an anomaly in in terms of what we do and how we do it, and and I just felt that we could fix a few of those. So, for example, referrals you know we get loads of referrals and for me, that's what took me from leaving management without a single client in the world. It was all about how do I do my job to the nth degree, how do I do it better than anybody else? Because, let's face it, if you go and see one broker versus another broker, you would like to think that the vast majority of the advice that you get should be, for two good brokers, fairly similar. But I was going to base it on customer service and I was going to be touching in with that client as often as I could. I was going to be giving them updates whenever I could and they were going to get the Rolls-Royce service as far as things were concerned, but then you become a victim of your own success and as soon as you start doing that for one, then all of a sudden it turns into another client, and another client, and another client. So referrals are the lifeblood of our business and I think that we get referred as a business so many more times than we actually see. So it was. How do we get those referrals that take place, that don't arrive on my desk for whatever reason? And also, when it comes to a referral, I think that I want the information so that I can go back to that customer rather than relying on the customer coming to me, because you know full well that nine times out of 10, it's probably not going to happen.
Speaker 2:And I think I've asked this question during my roadshows. I think there's not many mortgage brokers out there who wouldn't have received a text message or a WhatsApp or a message or some description saying is it okay if I give you details after so-and-so? And you're like, yeah, just do it, just crack on. Or when they've done a mortgage for someone and they turn around and say, oh yeah, you did the mortgage for me, brother. And I'd be like what's your brother's name? And they'd tell me the brother's name and I'd be like no, I didn't. They, I thought you did. I gave them your details. So we now so and again.
Speaker 2:The way to encapsulate that for me is is that is is the lifeblood of my business. It's everybody's daily go-to. You know people. I've just come back from Croatia for a few days and we're watching people in a restaurant having an evening meal as a family and the whole family's just on the phone and you're like come on, but it's so important to all of us, so for us it's all about how do we strengthen that relationship and get into somebody's mobile phone not just as a contact, because that's not good enough anymore. You've got to actually really engage with the customer in the phone, and that's why we decided on making the app Wow, and I think that I know.
Speaker 1:But the good thing is is that you've then made it a reality on the back of because there'd be hundreds of brokers listening to podcasts, thinking, yeah, I could do this so much better, this could work better, and we all hear it and we've all been in that situation whereas you've sort of taken a leap and gone. This is something that has to change, has to happen. Embracing technology, technology, like you say, whether that was covid and the face-to-face had gone, and then it's on teams and what, and zoom or whatever, whatever that is. But actually you're doing something about it, putting technology at the forefront of what you're doing. Embracing that technology going. Do you know what this is about? And that's, like you said, the referrals is a life blood of a lot of businesses that aren't. That don't, don't get me wrong. People on social media with websites, google ads and all the rest, all the other ways that people generate leads, they will. They will sort of still be getting referrals anyway, but not having something that sort of centered around that and easier to do that as well.
Speaker 2:So there's nothing better than a bit of referred business. There's nothing better. You know, that's what I want to get, because you've already, you've already gained their trust without even seeing, you know, before you've seen the customer, and and so for us, again, that's where it started. And and I suppose the other thing is when we, you know, sometimes people aren't happy, let's face you can't please everybody all of the time. You can do your best and you can try your best to do it.
Speaker 2:And the only complaints that we ever received were ones where people didn't feel like they'd been informed enough along the way, along the journey. But that's because you know personally I'm doing, you know, 30 plus mortgages a month and dealing with 30 plus people and communicating with 30 plus people and giving updates to 30 plus people. And it's tough, it's hard and sometimes things do go awry. So again, for us it was all about communication and how do we improve that communication journey? So I obviously came up with the idea and I spoke to a few very close people, people that I trusted, and kind of spoke to them about my idea, because it was all in my head at the time, as were a lot of things, but the idea was up there somewhere.
Speaker 1:That's part of being a business owner, mate. We've got everything going on in his head, sir, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I listened to what they had to say to me and I trusted their judgment and they all agreed with me that it was a really good idea and a good concept. So we were like, yeah, let's, let's do it, and I actually believe it, or not I also there was a fourth person that I spoke to and they're part of a network. Quite high up in that network we've worked before in the past and I massively trusted their kind of judgment on things and I didn't even get a chance to speak to that person before they shut me down and said leave the technology to the technology, people don't bother aid. You've got a really good business you're doing well. Just forget about it. There's people out there with deeper pockets than you've got.
Speaker 2:And I've took it to heart, craig, if I'm honest with you, and it was nearly a stumbling block in me actually doing it and that person I will name no names, but that person has now come back to me and we are at very advanced stages of incorporating it within that network. So that's kind of come full circle. You know, sometimes you know you need to take those knocks on the chin and uh, like I say, it nearly did stop us from doing it, but we thought and believed in the product and and in the main, yeah, it's evolved into something. It's probably gone a bit bigger and better than we ever expected in terms of an actual product, but that's because there's so much rubbish out there that. So we I spoke with somebody else the other day and they said, whatever you do because they said we know you're a broker Don't say it's built by brokers for brokers.
Speaker 2:Don't say that, because that's everybody, everybody's kind of strapline. And I think our strapline is very much that we've been built by a broker for your customers. Because I think the customer is the one person that's been completely forgotten about when it comes to any technology out there in terms of CRM systems and things like that. And we get the feeling that the CRM portals that are out there, the client is forced to use pre-application and then it never gets used again, and so for us, we need to. I think we've had all the consumer duty, tcf wrapped up into consumer duty, although again, it'd be named something else again in a couple of years' time. But it's all about the customer. Without the customer, craig, we kind of started that in terms of being a good self-employed broker, you need customers. If you don't have customers, it doesn't matter how good you are Exactly, and so for us's all been about improving not only our journey, but mainly the customer journey.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of what part of the process does Mortgage Wallet become involved with the customer journey? What part of the process does if I'm a broker, like I say, I've got a lead coming through? What's the trigger, what's the part of the process?
Speaker 2:Well, in effect, I think the other thing, greg, is I'm not saying to any broker out there that they're doing things wrong. You know they do it their way and what I'm saying is incorporate what we have and it can be done even more effectively than what they're already doing. I'm not telling them to change what they're doing, but just incorporate this to enhance your customer journey and it will benefit you. We bring it in at mortgage inquiry stage, so the minute that we speak to a customer, we then want them on the app. The more people we have on the app, the more business we're going to do. The more we can integrate with their mobile phone, the less likely they are to go anywhere else.
Speaker 2:I tasked a load of clients, new clients who I'd never seen before, to come in when they were looking for remortgages, to come in to see me or Teams or Zoom or whatever it may be, and to bring with them to that meeting a copy of their old mortgage offer. And not a single person during the last nine months has brought a copy of that mortgage offer, greg A massively important, informative document that they should have and should know where it is. They're not able to bring it, so in in that respect. How do we get all the documents in one place to help the customer? And again, that's obviously what a solution for us.
Speaker 1:Um was very much built into mortgage wallet so you're bringing it in application like early, early door, like as part of the. So what does the? So? Does the customer download mortgage wallet? What's the sort of situation with brokers and what talks to each?
Speaker 2:other. So we send them an invitation as and again. Obviously, where a broker wants to bring it in in their business is entirely up to them. Because it can be brought in at different stages, it's not a problem For us.
Speaker 2:We bring it in primarily at the mortgage certificate stage. So I know that the majority of clients that we see it previously, you know you'd see someone face to face, they'd see the whites of your eyes, you'd shake hands with them when they went and you knew whether they were going to come back or not. You know, like I say, you're not going to win everybody over, but you knew that whether they were going to come back and I think maintaining that strength of relationship post covid and with the other technology that's out there to do meetings, I think is is much harder. So we bring it in at mortgage certificate stage and we upload their mortgage certificate or their agreement in principle and their dip, whatever you want to call it. We invite them.
Speaker 2:So we we send them a text message or an email to download the app to their phone and we would then upload their mortgage certificate into the phone, into the app. So then when they go to an estate agents, you know the first thing that's going to happen? Can we see a copy of your mortgage agreement? In principle and we know why they're doing it it's good practice to a degree, but they're trying to win that business away from you. But what we've started is we've now got a relationship, like I say, much further beyond just being a contact in that phone. Your mortgage has started without it actually starting, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, from a client's point of view, I've already started the process. Why am I going to need to do this again when I've already started? And here's my phone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've all lost business to estate agents where they've done it, and I'm not saying that it's going to stop everybody from going anywhere else and you're going to win everybody over, but you will lose less business to other brokers because your relationship is much stronger, much sooner in in the one piece of kind of equipment that's so powerful in the customer's hands and so important in the customer's hands it's just easy, isn't it?
Speaker 1:that, from a client's point of view, it is the this is a stressful enough process as it is. This is going to be stressful events and there's going to be stressful meetings. There's going to be difficult conversations. All these things are buying houses or doing whatever for your mortgage needs. It's going to be. So. If you've got something that's easy on the phone, something they carry around with every single day and go there it is and everything's there, they're not going to get distracted by all the noise going on going oh, you need to go and see this broker, come and see our broker, come and see this. Like I say, you're not going to win everybody over. However, they're going to be less distracted by somebody else saying come and see me or come and see our broker, when they've already started the process, they've downloaded up and they're going through the motions already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the other thing, craig, is you know I've seen good markets, bad markets and we'll. You know the market we feel is good at the moment, but you know it will change again in the future and we'll experience times where it'll be more difficult. The last thing that you can afford to do as a broker is to not speak to your customer for two years in between mortgages or five years, as the case may be because a lot more five-year fixed rates have been done on the back of the way the rates have been going, and you know I'm guilty of it. I've, in fact, had a client not too long ago kind of pre app where I've turned around and said I can't believe it's two years and they're like oh no, it's five years and you're like, because self-employed, it just kind of. You know you're in a constant kind of wheel of mortgages and and it is difficult to keep on top of sometimes. So for us there's no way that you should be not communicating with your customer during the off stage of not doing anything with them.
Speaker 2:So, whether that be so, when, yeah, when I started, um, the business, I was going to send everybody a welcome to your new home card. It was going to be a birthday card, it was going to be a Christmas card. I was going to touch in with them a couple of times a year. Now the app does it all for you. So I'm not saying it replaces it, in the sense that it would always be better if you could actually send a card and things like that, but I quickly found out that it was time consuming and it was expensive and it just didn't happen after after a short amount of time. So for us, we've got the app doing that in the background, so it sends them a text on there or push notification, and on their birthday it sends them christmas messages. It sends them a reminder six months before their mortgage is due for renewal and and it just does look it asks for a referral after so long post post-completion, and what we're finding is the engagement.
Speaker 2:I think email is dead, greg, to be honest with you. I don't know whether anybody else feels the same way. But work, yes, it's needed and I'm on my emails all day, every day, for work. But the client engagement via emails for me is a dying art and the engagement that we get after sending a push notification to someone is far more, it's much better quality, it's much quicker and just far more of it. And, yeah, my lad came to do work experience with us as a broker firm and obviously I ran it past him before doing any of this because he's that next generation and he was like it's got to be out there already. He said I can't believe there isn't one and it's and, and at the time of the idea that wasn't. I think there's a couple of other people out there doing similar things in terms of um, client engagement, but I personally don't think anything's anywhere near as good as what we've got, and we've been told that by by other people.
Speaker 1:So I think that's like saying it. It is about you've touched on there and, like I've talked about so much time in the past, it's not about just getting the customer today. It's about retaining that client because they will, from the from the point of sale, when they move in that house, when their mortgage completes, whether you like it or not, they will forget about you. They will like, they will, just they will whether you, they were your best mate at that time and all the rest of it, and they absolutely love you. And there will people that won't forget you. Obviously I am being worst case now, but there will people that will forget.
Speaker 1:You know there's so many touch points that you can have the more touch points you can have, from the day they move in to when their remortgage is due. If they know that you're still around and they know you're still around because they get constant messages from you then they will come back to you. If the question is whether they know you're still around or not, when they see the mate down the pub and they said oh, you had a really good mortgage broker that you used when you moved in that house. You tell me how amazing they were, but I need my mortgage sorted out. That was a couple of years ago. Yeah, I don't know if they're still doing it or not, and I think the name would be John or like. Do you know what I mean? I may have a look on my phone and then they can't like they might be able to find it not again.
Speaker 2:It's less likely to happen. But I think retention's a huge thing for mortgage brokers. You're spot on mate with everything that you just said, and I think one of the biggest threats to our business is product transfers, because I think a client uh, the lenders are making it much more difficult. But I think if we go back to when I first started I'm not sure how long you've been in the industry, craig, full stop. But like I say 22 years ago, over a client's mortgage lifetime, you would expect them to swap lenders every two, three, five years or whatever it was. I think you'll find that of the 10, 11 mortgages that somebody might do across their mortgage life span, eight of them will now be with the same lender. They'll only be two or three where they're going somewhere else. So you need to retain that business. We fight so hard for that business day one and then we let it go on its way. It's not just worth that, it's not that one hit one day.
Speaker 2:When you first do it, you know it should be your. Your attitude towards any customer coming through your door should be that you are their broker for the rest of their kind of mortgage life, absolutely like, I say, with product transfers. I'm a massive fan of the fact that the fca stipulate that if you want a new mortgage, you have to go and see a qualified broker, even go into into a bank. You have to speak to somebody who's qualified, you know, who can actually give you advice. But then two years down the line, you suddenly become qualified enough to pick your own bloody deal online Wrong, and the sooner the FCA gets to grips with it and do something about it, because for me it's a can of worms that's going to open and cause a lot of problems. People can make all the wrong choices two years, five years down the line, and this should not, in my opinion, shouldn't be allowed to do it. It should be forced back to us and back to the intermediary market. But we do that via the app.
Speaker 2:The other thing, craig, just to, I talk far too much, as you well know. No, it's fine, honestly. It's fine. It's born from passion about it, to be honest with you. But the other thing in terms of the app, god do you know what? I've lost my train of bloody thought. Now I wonder what I was going to say. That happens to me age. It happens to me all the time he'll come back to me in a minute, don't worry, he'll come back to you.
Speaker 1:He'll come back to you. He's fine, I don't worry, he'll come back to you. But no, but well, I was gonna. I'm glad I didn't interrupt you then because you're gonna blame me for losing your chain of thought. I was gonna say don't get worried about getting passion, because it's clearly you. It's something you, you are passionate about. I get passionate about retention.
Speaker 1:Retention is a massive thing from a business point of view. If you're looking to build a long-term business, which we all are here to do we're not. Nobody decides to be a broker. You're thinking what, I'm going to give this a crack for a year or two and then I'll get out of the game. And and they don't do, you, don't do that with mortgage brokers. We, we are hitting it for life, kind of thing. So the same with the client.
Speaker 1:You want to see those clients that when you first start seeing them, your first interaction with them, you're thinking I'm going to be doing your mortgage for the rest of the time you need a mortgage. I'm going to be talking about your protection. I'm going to be talking then, and if you've then got a relationship or you can offer full financial advice. You've then got the client while they're, as long as they're alive. So you then it's just having that corporate mentality. But we don't, we just the broke and like for you, like doing like the numbers you're talking about.
Speaker 1:When you're doing 30 mortgages a month, it's easy to see it as a transaction. It's easy to see as well I've got enough business. We've seen it. We've seen that corporate world like where you've got brokers who would be doing 30 mortgages a month, never worried about the whether if they come back or not. That's, I'm not going to worry about it. I'm still going to get 30 new deals this month.
Speaker 1:Whereas when you're self-employed, you're starting out everyone's and you've been honest with how you've sort of been of and we've all been there. Yeah, I'm gonna send birthday cards, I'm sending Christmas cards and we do all these things. But then, as we become, what then gets you busy? You then forget what to do because you don't have time to do it. Whereas if you've got an app that is giving you that making things easier, making things easier for you as a broker and you and for your clients as well, then it's more likely to happen and you're not going to forget what got you to where you are in the first place, which you've obviously seen that gap and identified that and trying and are plugging that gap with regards to retention, which is a massive, massive thing that brokers seem to forget. I've remembered what I was going to say now, I thought you had.
Speaker 2:Do you know what?
Speaker 1:I thought I was going to end what I'm saying right now because I'm thinking and I saw you writing it down thinking.
Speaker 2:I've written it down just in case. Yeah, so I mentioned about the fact that I tasked a load of customers to bring their mortgage offers and those that didn't which is all of them a lot of them would turn around to me and say, well, don't worry about it, because I've got all the information on the lender app, and they'd log into NatWest. Or they'd log into the app and they thought, well, if the lenders are doing it, why do you think the lenders are doing it?
Speaker 1:and we've got to get in and beat the lender to it by enhancing the journey so that, like you say, they are going to come back to us, because it shouldn't just be a one-hit wonder ever and the thing is the client will see, unless you're, you put their mind at rest and you tell them that this is and you explain what the process is and what's going to happen, and what's going to happen when that deal is coming to an end. They're just going to think oh my God, come on, we tried to sort of mortgage that as remortgages do. Oh my God, come on, when we tried to sort of mortgage out last time, all the dramas we had, all this, all that, the other and then they get a message, a notification from choose which deal you want on here and it's job done. What are they going to choose? But if you've explained as a broker, this is what's going to happen. This is what's going to happen next. You are going to get something from. But don't worry, I can still do that for you. It's simple process. I'll do it for you. But then I will compare it to the rest of the market and see what's out, whether that's, whether it is still the best deal.
Speaker 1:And don't worry, a remortgage is nothing like the stress you went through buying the house in the first place or whatever you've got it. It's all about touch points with clients. It's all about making sure that they know you're still doing that, you're still in the job. First of all, you're still being a broker for them and you're on their side. But secondly, you're going to get to take the stress out for them again, like you did in the first place. When you sort of the mortgage out and they've done the it, and they're not until they've done the first remortgage and then go, you know what? Adrian's still looking after adrian. It's not until they've gone through the process again and the remortgage that then the relationship becomes a little bit stronger because they know you're still around and they know what a remortgage is now and how easy it is to do exactly.
Speaker 2:But you need to be on the forefront with that, yeah, you mentioned you mentioned it, craig that it doesn't matter. You can tell them at the end of your sign-up appointment that that's what's going to happen, but they forget about you, never mind what you've said in the appointment. So, yeah, for us it definitely is about touch points and the BDMs that we've had around to demonstrate with them, they're all about that.
Speaker 1:They can't believe that, as an industry, the amount of brokers that they see where the product retention at the end of two years, you just let it go out the back door and it's just madness, absolute madness, and I I never. And I think it, like you said, depends on your background, depends where you've come from, but yeah, I never understood that. In terms of the retention point of view, like from a client point of view, you should have some contact with them at least every six months, even if it's just so. If they're getting a birthday message at Christmas, then you've covered the once every six months anyway, generally speaking.
Speaker 2:The thing is, greg, you lose their mortgage business, then you're probably going to lose that protection business and you start losing your protection business. You're on a slippery slope in my opinion, exactly on a slippery slope in my opinion. So, like I said, we we send six to seven um kind of pre-built in notifications in the first year, and then three or four just to make sure we don't want to bombard them. It's all relevant stuff and we don't want to bombard them with stuff to the point where they're going to think, oh, do you know what's up? You know, it's just kind of um notification after notification. So for us and there is a reason for keeping it afterwards so when we have a status wheel during the application process, so it lets them know where they are on the status wheel, and then when we get to completion, that status wheel turns into a countdown clock so you can visually see a when your mortgage is due for renewal and it counts down on literally kind of minute by minute, and and you can also see an amortization calculator so you can see what your approximate mortgage balance is as well, everything that your customer would want. So people are engaging with it post completion and they're they're engaging with it, with your mortgage firm at the helm, if that makes sense. So yeah, they're not. They are going to come back to you. So for us it was more referrals, more retention and a better customer journey.
Speaker 2:Because the communication side of things, because it's much easier for us to communicate with um our customers. It's much easier for our customers to also communicate with us, which means that from an administrative perspective, it's taken loads of time out of the whole process. We're not having to, you know, ring three or four times to get hold of somebody to pass on a simple message and playing telephone tennis, all the time, sending emails, and we've all done it, never mind heard it, where we've turned around and said, oh yeah, it must have gone into our junk folder and I didn't see your email, you know because? Because, because we've seen it and life gets in the way and things like that. So for us it's emails dead, it's all about push notifications and messages.
Speaker 2:And we have the instant messaging function within the app. So all your chat now with the customer. So from a principal's perspective, obviously I can deal with my customers and talk with my customers, but I can also see what communication is happening with all my brokers within the instant messaging function. Okay, and so I think there's many as a principle. There are so many benefits to being able to do that. It's unreal, but that's a conversation to have with the principals as and when they want to have demos open.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I think, like you say, we haven't even talked. There's a lot of things we've not talked about and we'll talk about what the next steps are in a second. But in terms of protection, clawbacks has been a huge problem for some brokers who are not retaining their clients and looking after their clients, and there are a lot of new brokers now protection providers are not doing two-year indemnity anymore. A lot of it is you're a new firm coming in, you've got the choice of four or four and then, well, four indemnity or none and non-indemnity the choice is yours. So if you're leaving yourself open, you're leaving that part of your business wide open to be taken and manipulated. And, like I said, we've all been there where you get that call back and go my God, like a grand. We've all been there where you get that call back and go my god, like, there's like a grand there, two grand there, or whatever the figure is it's. Then you feel as though you're taking a step back to then oh, my god, like. And so you.
Speaker 1:It's just about protecting your business. It's about protecting your client, about protecting your business and protecting what you've already done. That that's the huge thing about as well. So we've talked so um. At the minute you're out road shows. You're out promoting any. That's the huge thing about as well. So we've talked so um. At the minute you're out roadshows, you're out promoting any. What's the sort of the? Is mortgage wallet the finished article, or is it?
Speaker 2:you're constantly developing the app and what's that look like I think, from a technology perspective, I'm not sure you ever get to the, to the finished article. I think it's always an ever evolving thing in the technology world they talk about, talk about an MVP or a minimum viable product, and we're way, way, way beyond that. We're getting excellent customer feedback from our end users in terms of our end customers, and we're also getting great broker feedback from people who are using it kind of in the intermediary channel and we are adding new features all the time and we we're pretty confident in we're seeing it work because as much as it's been built by brokers for clients, it's also, you know, without being built by brokers and being used by brokers, um, currently. So we're seeing the rewards ourselves as a firm and I know that others will do as well. So, yeah, it will be ever evolving, it will grow and grow, it will get better, but it's already at a stage where it's adding a lot of the core values, if not all, of the kind of minimum viable product, the minimum core values that we wanted it to do. It does all and more already, but it is going to evolve even bigger and better.
Speaker 2:We don't tie people in, greg. We're confident in what we do. It's a rolling, monthly kind of subscription. Okay, we know how good it is.
Speaker 2:Without wanting to sound Without, no, I suffer massively and have gone off on a tangent with imposter syndrome to a degree. But when you really, really believe in something and we do and you can see it working, then that's why I'm so passionate about it. It was never about making money. It was never about selling a product to someone. We built it initially for us and 22, 22 years the industry's been pretty good to me and to a degree I love nothing more than seeing other brokers come through the ranks and get you know kind of better at what they do, and I know this will improve every business, every mortgage broker business out there. I think everybody should be using it and to the point where we've had mortgage clubs or people in mortgage clubs in the DA market say our mortgage club should be paying for this for us because of how good it actually is and they've signed up to it. They're paying for it. They believe that the networks, they believe that the big corporates everybody should have it Should be having it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mate, that's a great way to end the podcast in terms of um from a positive note from, like you say, in terms of you and your values and what you believe in and why, how this whole thing came about, and your motivation as well, because, like you say, it's all about your motivation is not the income, is the income, it's about customers, but also, as well, the customers from a broker point of view, from a client, like your clients are brokers, that's the thing. So it's about customers, but also as well, the customers from a broker point of view, from a client, like your clients are brokers, that's the thing. So it's about you seeing them developing, growing and help and building a strong business. So I'm a broker now. Same thing and I want to know more. What's the best way to reach out to you and get a demo booked in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can contact me by telephone. Our telephone number is, or my telephone number, I'm quite happy to give it out is 07828 902086. You can go online onto the website, which is wwwmortgagewalletcouk, and you can book straight into my diary for a demo from that page. And yeah, I think the real, it's all right talking about it, it's all right being passionate about it, but actually seeing it from a broker perspective and the client perspective and going through the demo, that's when it really hits home just how kind of good and important it is. So, get in touch. And it's also we give the first month free, Greg, so you don't have to pay for the first month.
Speaker 1:You know, try, try it, see if it's going to work for you. We're pretty confident it will. Excellent, no way, and I'll make sure that you're tagged in on all that. We'll put the links in the show notes about the sorry. Put the links in the show notes about the um with all your contact details and getting demos and things like that. So may adrian, great to catch up, great to to see you, great to hear about Mortgage Wallet and great to see how well you're doing from employed. Last time we spoke was quite a few years ago in the employed world. How things have changed for both of us and moved on. Great to hear you talk so passionately about Mortgage Wallet and about what motivates you, and about your values as well and how it will constantly be continually evolving as a product.
Speaker 1:But thank you so much for your time, thanks for agreeing to come on the podcast, thank you appreciate it thanks, adrian, thanks for being a guest on the podcast, thanks for sharing everything about mortgage wallet and, as I said, if you are thinking about it or any questions, there's links in the show notes to get your demo booked in asking Adrian any questions and see how it works for yourself, which I think there's only so much a podcast can do about explaining an app. I think you have to get onto a demo and have a look at it yourself. So, yeah, thanks very much for Adrian for giving an honest account of yourself and of mortgage as well. So thanks everyone for listening.
Speaker 1:If you've got any thoughts, comments on this month's podcast, please share them on whichever platform you listen to or watch the podcast. If you are thinking about becoming a self-employed mortgage broker, or you're looking to set up your own business and brand as a mortgage broker, or you're looking to enhance your existing mortgage broker business, get in touch through my website, craigskeltoncouk, to explain more how I can help you in terms of your journey within the mortgage broker world. Don't forget to check out my new podcast, the Morning Mindset, which has been out quite a few months now. Daily podcast idea about inspirational, practical advice to set up your day. Um, and yeah, thanks very much for listening and, as always, don't forget to run your own race.