Mortgage Broker Broadcast
Developing your knowledge to help you build a successful Mortgage Broker business. Craig Skelton shares his thoughts and experiences on all aspects of mortgage advice covering everything from operating in the banking world, estate agency based advisers all the way up to working as a self employed broker. He will be joined by experts from within the industry and other business sectors which all play a key part in becoming a successful mortgage broker in the modern world.
Mortgage Broker Broadcast
From Estate Agency to Mortgages: Chris Hazell's Journey and Strategies for Success in the Broker Industry
Embark on a transformative journey with Chris Hazell, who went from grappling with post-grad uncertainty to carving a niche in the mortgage advising realm. Our candid chat unveils his strategic maneuvers into the industry, shedding light on the pivotal role past experiences play in shaping a fulfilling career. You'll uncover the potent mix of skills gained from estate agency that can amplify your success as a mortgage broker, and grasp the nuances of guiding clients, particularly those navigating the daunting waters of first-time homeownership.
Tune in as we peel back the layers of transitioning to self-employment, where the autonomy and potential for growth are as immense as the challenges. The discussion spins tales of financial juggles, the delicate dance of family and career, and the iron-clad persistence required to build a thriving business. Get an insider's look at how industry veterans navigate the complexities of lead generation, regulatory compliance, and the often underappreciated art of timing when soliciting client reviews.
As we wrap up this insightful episode of the Mortgage Broker Broadcast, I'm extending an open invitation to subscribe to my new daily, solo podcast, The Morning Mindset.
Whether you’re an established mortgage broker or aspiring to chart your own course in the industry, join us for a daily dose of empowerment with 'The Morning Mindset' podcast and let's push the boundaries of personal and professional growth together.
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Hi and welcome to this month's Mortgage Broker Broadcast. This is the first episode where we've changed things up slightly with the Mortgage Broker Broadcast. Now it is now a monthly podcast. What are the changes that's happened? Not really a great deal. We're now focusing on guest only. That's why it's changed up to recording one episode every single month with a guest. Similar sort of format as before quite informal, no agendas, just talking to people within the industry, talking to brokers, business owners, people within the industry who specialize topics and subjects that they talk about.
Speaker 1:I say the mortgage broker broadcast won't change, just purely from a monthly point of view, purely from a guest only point of view, and this is the first one that we've done. I'm now doing a daily podcast which is called the morning mindset. I will expand a lot in terms of what that's all about as we move forward. But the reason by why I'm doing that is I wanted to do something which I just wanted to offer more than a weekly chat show, host, uh, to the pod, that kind of podcast. I wanted to do something sort of daily helping people, sort of set up the day, take action, have impacts and still talking about things I've learned. I've been running my business now for seven years been in the industry for a lot, quite a lot longer than that but what I wanted to do is just have sort of share, like talk about unique challenges within the industry or about being self-employed as well and just exploring, just having more impact on a day-to-day basis. But yeah, I will talk a lot more about the, the morning mindset, as the weeks come before the launch, which is on the the 1st of July. But I just want to be clear it's not it's called the morning mindset, but it's not one of those sort of well, the reason why I call it that is because I think it's important to. It's important how you start your day. It's not like the 5am club or anything like that. It doesn't matter what time you start your day, it's about when you do start your working day, how you start it and having impact and taking action and all the rest, and there's a lot of other things within that as well. Uh, but, like I said, I'll be sharing a lot more about the podcast as that moves closer to the first of july. Um, and yeah, so let's this week's, this month's podcast, as it now should be.
Speaker 1:My guest this month is chris hazel from chris hazel mortgages. The reason why I wanted to get chris onto the podcast is that Chris has been a broker now for a few years, joined at a certain time, went straight into self-employed mortgage broker which I'll explore and talk a lot about and he just he's got like a set mindset with regards to what he's done, how he's achieved it, where he wanted to get to talk about where he is now and talk as well about the future and what the future looks like for him and his business. He gives a very honest account, which is what I expected from Chris nothing different, because he's quite a very open, honest kind of person. And now let's just get Chris Hazel onto the podcast. So welcome onto the podcast, chris. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm great. Yeah, very good. Thank you how you doing very good thank you.
Speaker 1:How are you doing? Good, yeah, good, thank you. Finally we get you on the podcast. It's been a while coming, I think this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we tried a while ago, didn't? We and I had Wi-Fi issues and yeah, but here we are ready to go.
Speaker 1:Finally got you onto the podcast. Finally got you onto the podcast. Obviously I know a bit about your background, your history and things like that. But I'm obviously excited to get you on the podcast and sort of share with the people that listen and subscribe more about you and walk through your sort of journey, really from how you started in financial services, where you are and how you got to where you are now, and a bit about the future as well. But I'm sure we've got plenty to talk about and no agenda and we're just going to have a chat. So first of all, for those people that don't know who you are, do you want to do a quick introduction about yourself?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm chris hazel. Chris hazel mortgages um, so I've been mortgage advising for coming up on four years now. Um and uh in terms of getting into it, I guess quite a lot of people sort of fell into it, but sort of had a plan as well. Came out of university with a politics degree, so no relevance to financial services.
Speaker 1:That is unique, chris. To be fair, you're the first person I've ever spoken. Normally it's like law degrees are quite big in mortgage broken. But yeah, politics wow policy.
Speaker 2:I just had a really good politics teacher at school and uh, so I wanted to carry. He enthused me in the subject and so I just wanted to carry on with it. And, um, yeah, did another three years at university with no intention really of going down the political route. Um, but you know, had three years at university and enjoyed it and came out not knowing what I wanted to do. Um, so sort of mucked around for a couple of years with a couple of jobs, um, worked for the family business, um, for a year, went on to the majestic wine graduate program, um and uh, and then went traveling for a bit and then when I came back, that was more when I sort of started to focus, I guess a bit more on having a career for what I wanted to do really.
Speaker 2:Um, and that stage got into sales. So I was in recruitment. So I was recruiting estate agents, um, down in london. So, um, all across the central London recruiting estate agencies down there, and then eventually recruited myself. After a couple of years of doing it I'd sell the job enough that you start to believe, yeah, sounds pretty good, sounds like fun, and yeah, so moved into estate agency and worked for an independent firm in southeast london. One of my good clients when I was a recruiter and uh, yeah, from from there sort of rose up through the ranks was managing a branch um, and then when we moved out of london, uh to uh to start our family, I moved from them to Hamptons in North London and had a year there, but I was already sort of coming to the end of my time with a state agency. With our first child, you know, six days a week was no longer really what I wanted to do, so I started to look at ways that I could get out the industry. But what I was originally looking at doing was was some financial advice and I started doing my exams for that, so the other exams and interviewed for a few sort of financial advice jobs but was struggling with lack of experience, basically. So a route of getting some experience to go down the mulch breaker route. So that's how I got into it originally. And then, once I got into it, yeah, I didn't want to do any more exams to become fully financial advice certified and I've just enjoyed mortgages because I've got the knowledge from property, from doing estate agency and seeing that whole process through.
Speaker 2:Since then started in an estate agency. Self-employed in an estate agency it's a bit of a funny role. It was around COVID, so they didn't want to take the risk of employing someone. Essentially, it worked well for me because it meant that I could have that flexibility to work from home as well as going into into the branch and spend more time at home and helping with the kids and stuff like that, and it worked really well in that, yeah, I could sort of start to grow a client bank. There wasn't too much risk, or the risk was minimised, being self-employed because leads were being provided to me quite regularly. As we know, the market didn't exactly slow down during COVID, so it was still pretty busy. So, yeah, I had lots of leads, built up a bit of a client bank, and then the key bit really for me, taking the next step was, um, they allowed me to create my own brand and build my own website and start generating my own leads. So, yeah, that worked.
Speaker 2:Uh, that worked really well I did have a short period in in um insurance before I moved into, uh, uh, into the estate agency role, um, so, yeah, sort of telephone based uh life insurance sales. That didn't go that well for me, uh wasn't there for long, but um taught me a bit about the insurance world, um, which carried through, but also taught me that that was not the type of selling that I wanted to do, um, and that, yeah, more just with protection was more what was, uh, I was looking for. So, yeah, um, obviously. Then I, once I was able to grow my own brand and build my website, start driving leads to driving reviews and things like that to my website and then generating leads through it and uh. And then I joined you, of course, craig, about a year ago, just, yeah, probably coming up a year ago now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, coming up a year, yeah, and working under my brand, my way and haven't looked back and it's been really good. Last year was a tough year, as I'm sure it was for a number of people at the back end of last year and um, but this year started really really positively. So, yeah, that's my story, I guess good story today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's quite. You say, give me that a very good whistle, stop toll. I want to sort of take it one of the questions that sprung in my mind when you sort of said about, because I'm keen to explore, like, how, like, do you think the estate agency background has helped in terms of mortgages? But one thing question I got is you've gone from recruitment, which, um, yeah, it's a I know a little bit about working recruitment and, um, yeah, it's a bit of a tough gig. But did you charge the firm that recruited you for that the thing or did you give it yourself free of charge?
Speaker 1:does that make sense yourself and you're charging my fee for you joining yeah, that well, yeah, obviously dead all um off the books.
Speaker 2:so should we say, I suppose so. So, yeah, I was looking and met with several people and obviously I knew them well. I actually had a friend who I'd placed well not that I'd placed there, but our firm had placed there previously who was working there and I'd seen him rise up through the ranks and he had positive things to say about them. So, yeah, I knew them pretty well, knew what to expect, and so, yeah, say about them. So yeah, I knew them pretty well, I knew what to expect, and say I joined them.
Speaker 1:I suppose you are recruiting people into that world. You're recruiting people into that firm and you work very closely with that firm from a recruitment point of view. You're going to know them pretty well. So you're giving yourself a bit of a head start, aren't you really, in terms of the firm, the culture, what it's all about? Because you're going to know that, for recruiting for them, you know what kind of person works well, what doesn't work well for them. So, yeah, you edge your bets a little bit, shall we say, and give yourself a good fighting chance to make it successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I knew they weren't going to be a Foxton's model or something where you were, which is what I was sort of coming from with the recruitment world. The recruitment company that I worked for was really really good. They were great, and when you just moved down to London they were really fun Lots of sort of team incentives and nights out and things like that. But I didn't want to carry on that sort of very structured approach as well you had sort of cool times up on board around the screen, all your.
Speaker 2:KPIs were heavily monitored, but that was a part of it that I didn't really like, and I think when you eventually go self-employed, that's often what you, I think what I was looking for was moving away from that being managed situation um and uh, and a bit more freedom to you know trust to be operate. You operate how you wanted to, and I knew that that was kind of how this company worked.
Speaker 1:obviously they had expectations of you, but they weren't going to micromanage you down to right, which is probably different to the large corporates that we all know in terms of the micromanagement side of things. So, going back to when you look at your time as an estate agent and understanding that and recruiting as well for estate agent, did that help you in terms of? Has that helped you in terms of from being a mortgage broker point of view, from being successful as you've been so far?
Speaker 2:uh, I'd say the estate agency side has recruit with less, uh, less to do with it. I mean, you know it was, it was a great um, uh, you know, start in terms of just getting you into the sales world and and, uh, you know just not being afraid to pick up the phone and all that sort of stuff, and you know being proactive, all those sort of things that help. But you know less so with walkages. But you know, in terms of getting to know the whole process and seeing it from the other side with the estate agency, estate agents who I work a lot with first-time buyers and being able to help hold their hands and try and translate the conversations they're having with estate agents and sift out what is truth from what estate agents speak with regards to when they're putting offers in oh, we've had three other offers, have they known? It's trying to weedle out what's truth and what's not. And when you come from the other side, you can sort of see this is this is what they're telling you. You can, you can try and coach first time buyers a bit through that process, and not necessarily just first time buyers, but anyone purchasing through that process of dealing with an estate agent would probably want what is the reality of what's going on behind the scenes. So it's definitely helped with that and definitely helped with just knowing the process, knowing what to expect, when to expect it.
Speaker 2:I worked very closely with solicitors when I was an estate agent. The office I was in was relatively low volume so we probably do, aiming for one sale a week. Essentially In our branch here we work hugely high volume so you would look after buyers and clients quite closely and work closely with solicitors to manage them through the process. So I've got to pick up a lot of what solicitors do and that sort of side of things as well. So, yeah, that definitely helps with um with helping buyers through their their purchase process as well I think you do.
Speaker 1:Like it's interesting. You say that because I know quite a few people that have moved from being estate agents. I would like my background was in that world. I know I've recruited negotiators and branch managers into, into mortgage services and giving them a chance. I think it's sort of it's interesting you said that because, like, it does really help when you're learning to become a mortgage broker. That is a whole new world, a whole new sort of industry for you.
Speaker 1:If you've come from a state agency background, you you get to understand the jargon, the terminology, the process, the good, the bad and the ugly with regards to the, the whole process from a sale, from buying and selling houses point of view. So I think because you you understand that and you've been through that kind of world, you're not having to learn that as well when you're just learning about mortgages because you've already had some. You know what an AIP is. You know what a decision principle is. You, if you've worked with a closely with a mortgage broker in your estate agency branch, you've got a good idea in terms of how they're without getting. You're not sat at their desk day and day out and dealing with the ups and down and roller coaster ride of being a mortgage broker, but at least you've got a fighting chance, at least you've given an idea.
Speaker 1:Now it's quite interesting. You've like say you said it, because that's my experience too, and some estages do fail, like not fail, that's probably not the wrong word. Go go back, but I'll see it as a failure. Going back to the other side, I think, like you said about come on to this side, I think there's a couple of people that I know that have gone from estate agency to mortgages and then back onto a stage because that's what they knew and that's what they wanted to do, but they've gone self-employed as a mortgage broker. And I think it's interesting to what you said with regards to that transition from estate agency to mortgage broker, because one of the big things is about leads and lead generation when you're first starting out, particularly when you are self-employed. But you had a great opportunity that then, I'm guessing, you seized at the time, thinking I can go self-employed, but also as well, I've got leads coming in, which is a good situation to be in when you're first starting out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, going back to your point on people coming to Wolves Broker, going back to a state agency, I think I've definitely seen that a couple of times with colleagues that have made the switch and gone back. I think it's so different in terms of you know the compliance aspects of it and the process of selling. You know there's literally virtually no paperwork involved in. You know for a negotiator selling a house versus selling a mortgage You've got to do. You know so much more paperwork, so much more admin side of things.
Speaker 2:I think you know the experience I've had with a couple that I know that have gone back. That's been the bit that they struggle with is they just want to sell things and not have to do all the compliance with it. So I think if you can get through that or if you've got a head for it, then you can get on really well with being a walker broker. But, like you say, that just won't fit with some people's personalities or what they're looking for from the sales bit of it. But in terms of the security net of having leads, going self-employed and having leads, that was always a thing that I knew I needed to have. And just getting self-employed and not having that I knew would be too much of a risk. So yeah, it was a really good balance and I was fortunate to find something like that space. I'm not sure how many opportunities there are that will give you as consistent leads as I had. And they were good. They were set up in such a way that they were keen to use you in that situation. So there wasn't too much just sort of phoning. We weren't just phoning every buyer that registered that sort of situation. They're more sort of they were more qualified with who. They who. They sent me away. So, no, it was a really good um, uh yeah route into the industry.
Speaker 2:It was, uh, it was quite tough in terms of support was lacking. I suppose that was the only bit that that was difficult. It was because you're self-employed, it was, you know, there you go get on with it and I think because I've done a couple of mortgages and done some protection, um, from where I've come previously there was, I think they perhaps thought I knew more than I did, um, certainly about mortgages at that stage, and so there was a lot of. You know, there were some tough times in terms of finding, um, finding your feet and and uh, struggling with.
Speaker 2:You're meeting with clients who have an expectation that you, you do know what you're talking about and uh, perhaps that's. You know that early stages you don't necessarily know what you're talking about, but you quickly build up the knowledge or the ways of delaying conversations until you do know what they're asking about and you do know exactly the criteria. As you go through and you get more experience, you realise people don't expect you to know everything, but when you start you feel especially concerned that you don't living ground as well. There were some assistants that were at the brokers throughout the estate agency that you could lean on and that would take your calls to talk through things. But equally, you didn't feel like you wanted to be calling them constantly. So anyone starting out, I guess that's something.
Speaker 1:Especially if they're self-employed as well, then they're going to be thinking we want to get on with earning some money, chris, and by helping and supporting you we're not earning any money right now. So I think that's testament to you in terms of your character, because anybody that's listening to podcasts and thinking that's like going self-employed, you're getting leave provided. That sounds like a dream and that's like an ideal scenario. But actually, from what you've said there, you've highlighted a real good point is that that's all well and good if you're getting the leads, but if you drown in those leads and you don't know what to do with it, you're not getting the help and support, somebody that you can turn to you. Then also, you've got leads coming at you. You've got an estate agent coming at you as well, saying we need to be getting these leads converted, and you're not getting that helping support to turn them around and and convert them as you should be doing.
Speaker 1:That was, must have been, like you say testament to, and that must be like a massive learning curve at the time, thinking you're throwing it deep and you've got these leads coming out. There you've got a bit of help from a with other brokers point of view, but you've got to get on with it. So you've got to learn yourself, you've got to develop yourself at that particular time. So how did that make you? How were you feeling, what were your thoughts when you first sort of went into this world? Can you?
Speaker 2:remember. I mean it was a highly stressful time of life and we just, yeah, not long had our first child and we had a second child um, I started with that station c in september, our second child in november. So two, two under two, wow, um and uh. My wife is on, goes on maternity reduced pay. So there was a lot of stress in terms of, you know, financial side of of life. Um and uh, that was, that was a lot of stress in terms of, you know, financial side of life and that was a bit of how more difficult was.
Speaker 2:Just, you were so keen to get earning, and earning decent money as quickly as possible that that bit was harder. And because I'd made this commitment to go self self-employed and that was what I wanted to do probably not what my wife wanted me to do she'd have much further got an employed job or maybe stayed in the state agency where I certainly all right money, um and uh. So so I sort of you know you just had it in your mind, you know sort of got to make it work. So, um, yeah, if you're having just had it in your mind, you know sort of got to make it work.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, if you're having difficulties with those knowing where to turn and what to do and all that sort of stuff and how to convert people. You just yeah, it's just mindset of. I've just got to get on with it. And you know, luck versus skill I think it was more luck than I think, just with the timing of it all in terms of the market still being really good. And if you're in a situation where you've got three or four people offering on a property and they can get one of them to come and see you, offers are similar, they can not the sort of Connell's route of selling it, but there's a way of presenting it. You know you present an offer, say, look we, we will have more control over this deal.
Speaker 2:These guys are obviously really keen to buy it because they're using our broker, they're using our solicitors, etc. They're more likely to get through the process. Um, that that yeah, the conversion side of things was was easier because of that timing thing and that was a bit more luck than it was anything to do with me necessarily.
Speaker 1:You're not very good at boosting your ego there, chris. To be fair, you're being very humble, which is fine. On the podcast, it's fine.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, I think so all the breakers that were in the estate agent at the time we were all sort of doing. It wasn't like I was way better than anyone else, we were all sort of doing really well together. I think I'd say it was more tough on the being self-employed aspect to it than it was just that lack of certainty than it was on, yeah, sort of the doing the job.
Speaker 2:I do remember it being difficult learning the ropes, but I think that period of time was a lot shorter than the self-employed aspect. And getting up and running and having consistent income in mortgages takes a lot longer than you you think it's going to. Uh, especially, we've sort of fees paid, fees paid on completion, so, uh, your property and your broker fee both paid on completion, uh, so you're waiting a long time to to start seeing that income come in and that income, a long time to start seeing that income come in and that income being consistent as well. So, yeah, that aspect of it I think was more difficult than just trying to get your head around things.
Speaker 1:I think, like from what you're saying and from the way that I'm hearing it, is that you very much put the. You said you wanted to go self-employed. You wanted that freedom and you had that drive. Persistence is a massive word because it could have been easy to take the easy route of going employed. You could have been employed as a broker, done the six days a week as you were doing as a state agent, and that would have been any different, but that would have been the safer option, especially with like two under two. That's a massive thing.
Speaker 1:So you've got that drive and motivation to make sure that you've sort of given your word to your wife and said look, I'm going to like I want to go self-employed, this is what I want to do. You had to make it work. There was no. So obviously you put that stress and pressure on yourself. However, that's driven you on and motivated you on and given you that, let's say, the real big persistence to then think do you know what? I have to make this work? There was no choice. You had to make it work, didn't you? It was like, literally, this has to work for you because you the financial burden that you're putting on yourself at the time, and especially with the, with your wife saying that I want, this is what I wanted to do, and going against going against harsh word, but maybe like not quite what she wanted you to do to go down that route. You're smiling, so obviously you must have been in that situation at the time, but no she was supportive, definitely was supportive.
Speaker 2:I don't want to paint, it's not being supported.
Speaker 1:I really I told you to go self-employed. Yeah, don't worry, it's fine now. That was just my. That would be clear the interpretation for your wife, to make sure if she does listen to the podcast. She was supportive, so get that right.
Speaker 2:We need to get that I doubt she's gonna listen, but, um, but yeah, no, she definitely was supportive and, uh, I'm just really into what, yeah, she would have, I think, really been thinking, uh, yeah, life, life for that stage probably would be easier.
Speaker 2:But life now is, you know, it's so much better that you do, I do have the freedom, um, you know, I do all the drop-offs, all the pickups from from school and nursery and um, and, and, yeah, able to help out so much more, um, when we had our third child, um, you know, because I was working from home, the number of times I got handed a baby just to hold it for a bit, and things like that, things that you couldn't have done if I was employed Definitely the state agency still going into an office five, six days a week. So, yeah, it's short-term pain for long-term gain. I think sense and yeah, don't get me wrong, there were times as well I did in the sort of early to mid stages where I started thinking I was looking at an employee. You know employee roles as well. I think that you know glad.
Speaker 2:I didn't go down that route but yeah. So there was a wobble period that I had where I sort of looked about going back into. You know, because as much as you say, oh, you have to make it work, there is always a fallback if you can get a deployed job. But equally, you know, if you push through, then the rewards are there. So, yeah, tough times but definitely worth it for where, where we're at, with um work-life balance and things like that, um being out, being around, um to help with kids and things like that cool, so clearly self-employed was always part of the plan.
Speaker 1:You wanted to have that freedom when you first started out. You obviously the estate agency. You must be trading under somebody else's style or trading as somebody else's firm. Was it always part of the plan that you wanted to have your own trading style and your own brand? Was that always something you wanted to do and strive to have?
Speaker 2:No, neither was being self-employed, but it sort of sounds like it was. It sounds like I had a plan. I didn't have a plan you always had a plan.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I'm joking. No, obviously, yeah, no, I appreciate.
Speaker 2:Being honest, yeah, it's just worked out the way you know, um, and you know, obviously I tried a few different jobs in my time and you just find what you like about it. And obviously, the big self-employed thing when I first went self-employed, I was self-employed at the protection, the insurance company as well, and there was other employed jobs that I was looking at. I was going in as a agency employed mortgage broker and it was yeah, it was that aspect of it that attracted me being self-employed, but it wasn't necessarily a plan. And, equally, having my own trading style then was also not a plan.
Speaker 2:It came up in just sort of conversation, you know, at a meeting Could I have my own website, could I have my own Google page to generate leads and things like that? And they sort of agreed to it. And then I just went away and did it essentially and built a website. They were obviously happy for me to do that because it meant I was bringing in more leads. They were taking a decent cut of those leads and that business. So you know it benefited them.
Speaker 2:From that perspective it did benefit them in the sense that I was then able to move away because I was able to generate my own leads through that. So, no, there wasn't a plan. I think I've, yeah, probably have always wanted to run my own business in the sort of back of my mind and we've, you know, we tried some things with my wife in the past that I was an FBA when we were both employed, um, so we, we've had tried and we've got that sort of. You know, my wife now is self-employed to build a business as well, so we've both sort of got that in us, I think. Obviously, my dad had his own business, family business.
Speaker 2:So there's something maybe maybe in the blood that I wanted to do it, but, yeah, perhaps didn't know how to. It's worked out that mortgage breaking is a low-risk, low-cost way of doing it, especially the way that I've been fortunate enough to have done it Getting the leads, building up a bit of a client base, building up a bit of a brand whilst still getting leads, all that sort of stuff. I've been fortunate that I could do that and um, and yeah, and then. So each step of the process has been sort of as low risk and uh, and as easy as as as possible, I suppose. So yeah, no, there wasn't a plan, just um, yeah, look um, and timing and those sorts of things I know.
Speaker 1:But the thing is that you say you there wasn't a plan, but actually was, there was a plan to keep it as low risk as possible. I'm guessing because you would. You did keep it low risk, which is part of like why you've been success as successful as you have. Because they say people will go high risk from the start, they'll literally cost wise. Particularly is a big thing which I see is why people fail, because then they'll go very heavy on spending but then thinking they're going to generate the income that they don't. But one thing. So when you look at because you are prolific on google, you are number one mortgage broker on google in stratford-upon-avon and like your local area. So when you talk about brand and obviously that was a part of the part of the plan was or you didn't have a plan. Sorry, it wasn't part of the plan because you didn't have a plan.
Speaker 1:But but what? Without giving your secrets away in terms of how and what you've done, without giving your secrets away in terms of how and what you've done, number one in Stratford, number one on Google, number one on the maps and things like that, that must have taken again a lot of learning, drive, persistence to get there Again. Was that always? You knew that that was. Was that part of what you wanted to achieve from the start, or is that something that you just found out as you sort of went?
Speaker 2:along really, yeah, just yeah. Basically my secret, if you will, is listening to podcasts. So you know the lead engine one, alex Curtis, ash Borlands, yourself. That's obviously how we, or I, found you. So, yeah, it was just listening to them and putting those things, especially with the Google putting that into practice. It just seemed like it's such a sort of easy thing to do.
Speaker 2:I suppose really is just do some deals and just make sure they leave, leave a room, um, most people are more than happy to to do it and, um, if you ask enough times, they eventually will do it. Um, uh, so, yeah, yeah, that's that's how I've just done it, by learning what other people have done and have had success with. You know, they're fortunate enough that they've shared enough of their knowledge to allow me to pick and choose and do what they've done and have been successful with, and just implement that. You know the website, so I did it all myself Originally. I've just had someone, uh, redo it for me to make it look a bit more professional, um, but it was just very basic. Following that again, what they said was you know, have a picture of yourself on there. The brand is obviously just my name, um, so I know who they're going to be dealing with. Um, picture yourself. Calls to action on the website. I had very basic information on there, but it seems people, as long as they can see you've got good reviews and, like I say, as long as you're getting in front of people by being on top of Google, if you can get there or just be ranking on Google somehow, then it makes life a lot easier.
Speaker 2:The social media side of it I've toyed with it. I don't love doing it, but do enough of it that it has generated me some leads. But I think also it's just about having a presence. If people do find you on Google, find you on Instagram, find you on LinkedIn, wherever they might look for you, there's some sort of level of consistency. Yeah, they can see what you're doing and that sort of stuff from there as well. So, yeah, that's all I've learned. I've just learned from others who have done it basically and who are willing to put their knowledge out. I've always listened to loads of podcasts. Why is my Wi-Fi? Because I put their knowledge out. I've always listened to loads of podcasts. Why it's my wife? Because I've always got my headphones in. But yeah, they've helped certainly with business from that perspective.
Speaker 1:I think that it's obviously pleasing to hear, not from my own podcast point of view, but from. I think there is people within the industry that are willing to share and people I've said it many times before brokers that are coming into the industry that are willing to share, and people I've said it many times before brokers that are coming into the industry new are pleasantly surprised how many people out there are willing to share their knowledge. I think the thing is with it is that you've listened to that knowledge. You've listened to those lessons that those people learn and people that have actually done it. You've taken those and actually acted on that, whereas people listen to it then don't act on it or do something else, or just listen to it, because they say they're listening to it but then they don't actually do anything with that learning.
Speaker 1:So you're a testament to that in terms of what you've done and what you've achieved with regards to the brand in your local area, you've got to that number one spot and and you're working hard now you I'm lucky enough to know that you've got you achieved that number one spot, but you continue to work hard to make sure that you maintain that number one spot as well, because obviously it's okay getting there, but then you've got to make sure that you stay there as well. With regards to reviews, was that again you knew you always had to do that, and what part of the process are you using google? Obviously, what, what? When do you ask for the reviews? How do you ask for the reviews, and was that always something part of your process?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, not when I first started out, because, um, you know that wasn't a huge benefit to me if I was driving reviews to another company, but as soon as there was, you know, at my website, so that was going to be benefit to me.
Speaker 2:Um, and uh, that again that came from. Yeah, it told this is what you should do. Um, and yeah, in terms of when I, when I asked for it, I think I used to ask on completion, but um, now always ask on mortgage offer. Um, yeah, ring, ring them and uh, give them the good news mortgage has been offered, talk through next steps, etc. And then just end the conversation with you know, have you been happy and would you mind leaving me a review? Um, most people, like I said, will say yes and then just pull up with an email with a link to make it nice and easy for them to do it and then, if they don't do it, just continue asking, uh, until they do um, you've got it written in the mortgage offer, chris, part of a condition in the mortgage offer that they have to do a review, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Exactly. Yeah Must be five stars. No, obviously not doing that, but yeah, it's sort of a bit shameless in a way, but I don't think there's sort of any harm in doing it. I think it also this might just be my ponderings, but I think it also reinforces them to remind them, and actually it was like he did a really good job for us and they're actually putting it down in writing and hopefully that means when it comes to remortgage, it sort of cemented that relationship a little bit more with them and it means that, yeah, business retention should be good.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So, when you look at like now, obviously, in terms of, we've talked about your past in the state agency. We've talked about where you like, the experience and the challenges you face from going self-employed straight away as a mortgage broker, and what and where you are now that you you're aspiring to, is any goals are you looking for now, moving forward, or is it just stability and cement what you've on the foundations that you've laid?
Speaker 2:Growth. Probably, I guess, and obviously you well know, I've got, hopefully, someone joining me in the next month or so and, and, yeah, I guess it would be to eventually remove myself from advising and more be a business owner and just driving the growth of the business, increasing leads and dealing with that side of it and letting others deal with the advice bit of of it. I don't know whether I would always keep my hand in with some clients, um, I haven't decided that yet, but now, yeah, the, the idea would be big growth. Um, I'm trying to grow in other local towns as well. So, um, just increasing brand awareness across south warwickshire, um, and uh, yeah, that's the goal obviously eventually get to having several, several brokers. Um, and uh, yeah, nice little business essentially.
Speaker 2:Um, I haven't thought about it much, much beyond that really at the moment. It was probably, if you asked me this five, six months ago, I wouldn't, I would have been just saying I'll just be happy to five. Six months ago I wouldn't, I would have been just saying I'll just be happy to consolidate with where the market was and where the leads were sort of dropped off. But now we're back up with more inquiries than this time last year, yeah, so hoping that it continues to to grow.
Speaker 1:Essentially, I think that was exciting times for you ahead, coming from responsible to yourself. Obviously you've got your family and your wife and in the background, but it's just that you are then taking on that commitment of you've got somebody else as part of the team. Some of the arts self-employed, you're taking them on as self-employed. But I think it's exciting times for you because you're going to continue to learn and develop while you are sort of growing. But then when you look at that, the mindset that you have with regards to you went straight in.
Speaker 1:As self-employed, as a mortgage broker, you're now looking to grow your business and expand it rather than just you, and that's part of your plans, but without you, sort of without using the word blueprint I don't know any word that we can use to it but you've got what you've done since you become a broker and you become number one in your local area. You've got that blueprint. You know what works. It's still a challenge but it's easy to replicate that in the like you say, as you're expanding your areas out to other towns and cities in your local area and growing that circle or square or whatever it looks going to be looking like, but that's it's easy to do that because again you're giving yourself a far greater chance of success because you've already built that yourself. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you make it sound like I know what I'm doing. I'm always learning, I'm always trying to figure out what I'm doing. Nobody knows what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Chris, nobody on the planet knows what they're doing, so don't even worry about what they're doing if I'm making it sound like I know what you're doing, then fine, but nobody knows what they're doing.
Speaker 1:We're all winging it. We're all just getting day by day and just growing and doing and learning. But the thing is you are learning and developing yourself. Whilst you're getting on with that, you know that you're not. You've been lucky. You've been very honest in that, like what you said, in terms of what you've achieved and where you've come from and what you've done. You've been given, like on the podcast. You've given you a very honest account of yourself in terms of what you've done, and I didn't expect anything different, knowing you've been looking to know you now for as long as I have. Whereas it is moving forward, it's still. You still know that you need to develop. You're still going to be learning. You're still going to be making mistakes, you're still going to be challenging yourself, but you've got the driving persistence and a few mouths to feed. Sat in the background, sat behind that door, behind you, to making sure that you, that you, make a success. But don't worry, everybody's winging it. Nobody knows what they're doing on the planet. Don't worry about that. No, nobody does.
Speaker 2:No, well, it's trial and error, isn't it? It's safe at work, yeah, there's. Yeah, there's all sorts of marketing things that I have tried. I don't know if they work, necessarily money spent, but you're not going to get that but always relatively low-risk things and you sort of give them a go and see if it works and, yeah, move on from there. Obviously, we've just discussed the ones that have been successful, which is great.
Speaker 1:Chris, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Finally, we get you on the podcast and I'm so pleased that you've. We've now got that recorded because you it was a great story, it's a great journey. I knew you're going to be very honest in terms of what you've done and what you've achieved. You're very humble around that as well, and you've and you, you know that you're going to continue to grow and continue to learn. So, yeah, been a great guest, been a great podcast to record, great episode to record. So thanks very much for coming on and thanks very much for your time.
Speaker 2:Thanks, greg.
Speaker 1:Thanks for that, chris, thanks for agreeing to finally come on to the podcast. Thank you so much for being honest and sharing your journey, your experiences, your where your head was at at certain points in a short period of time, from when you've been into mortgage broking and again sharing your goals and what your aspirations look like for the future. I think people have taken a lot from that and, yeah, it was a great podcast to record and thank you so much for doing that, as always. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing. If there are any comments, thoughts, feedback, please leave them on whichever format you. Please leave in the comments and whichever format you listen to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Any suggestions for guests moving forward? Then again, please message me, put them in the comments, anything like that, and please make sure you subscribe to the new daily podcast that's coming out, the Morning Mindset, which I will tag into and share as part of this podcast. So, yeah, please subscribe to that. If you're subscribing to the Mortgage Broker broadcast, I'm hoping you subscribe to the Daily Morning Mindset as well, which will help. And, as always, if you're considering becoming a self-employed mortgage broker or you're looking to start your own mortgage broker brand and business, or you're looking to accelerate your growth of the existing business you have, then visit my website, craigskeltoncouk, reach out any questions, any thoughts, message me, book your discovery, call and let's explore how I can help and support you achieve your goals and achieve your aspirations and achieving what you wanted to do with your business and with you as a person and a human being. And, as always, don't forget to run your own race.